2023 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[flamingred89]

Kyle Gibson going to throw a complete game at this rate lol

[Kasi]

Probably too early to say anything on the trades but losing offense is really hurting them this year now that Chapman cooled down and Vlad got tweaked. They could definitely use a Teoscar or Gurriel in the lineup right now. Their catchers imploding didn’t help either and that makes the Varsho trade look worse. I do think the trades will likely even out in the long run.

To me I have to kinda agree with the analysis of the farm system. Like it’s hard to be sad when you do have success stories like Manoah, Bo, Jansen and Kirk. (Despite the scuffling) But right now they just don’t have anyone in the minors who can step in and help the team and that’s fairly damning. If we just had a good defensive OF who is young and a couple relief pitchers (we have Pearson now who is good but we should have two more) we likely wouldn’t have had to make as many trades. Because we’re not graduating young players who can help at the margins we’re forced to make the White or other trades which hurts your ability to have breakout players in the future. Bad cycle to follow.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Doubles and home runs win games.

[Roof-Daddy]

The offense should be fine and moving Teo/Gurriel for better defensive outfielders was still a good move.

The offense is hurting because Springer, Kirk and Jansen are really bad right now.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Springer especially is concerning. I believe he can turn it around

When do they move Varsho down the order? Seems like it's time.

[Samonadreau]

Varsho needs to come out of the top 4 in the order. Put Merrifield or Kiermier there.

[Kasi]

I’d put Varsho at 6/7 and leave him there. If they want a leftie up in the order put Belt there. He has some issues but he has experience hitting in that part of the lineup.

[Roof-Daddy]

I would bat belt 3rd, he's come on with the bat of late and believe it or not is an above league average bat now.

Kiermaier I'd leave be. He's having a great year but based on his career I'd expect regression soon.

Merrifield is a solid player but his 86 wRC+ is nothing to write home about.

Just have to keep plugging along and hope Springer, Kirk and Jansen wake the F up.

[Kasi]

Springer
Bo
Vlad
Belt
Chapman
Merrifield
Catcher
Varsho
KK

That’s what I’d go with. I think that’s a solid lineup but the two OFs and catchers have to pull their weight.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I like that too. Need to change something up as Varsho is leaving way too many guys on base.

[Jason14h]

Merrifield
Bo
Vlad
Chappy
Varsho
Springer
Belt
Catcher
KK

Would be a big ego hit to Springer … but is what it is

You get the speed of 9 and 1 on the lineup turnover

[Karl]

Jays bats right now



Frack.

[KelVarnsen]

Tonight shows one of their biggest flaws. When they are terrible, all of them look terrible. Super streaky team that has many times goes into terrible mode at the wrong time versus the wrong teams. Teams who win in the playoffs don’t do that.

I’m just tired of teams I like doing the same #### every year. And right now I don’t see the Jays competing.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Tonight shows one of their biggest flaws. When they are terrible, all of them look terrible. Super streaky team that has many times goes into terrible mode at the wrong time versus the wrong teams. Teams who win in the playoffs don’t do that.

I’m just tired of teams I like doing the same #### every year. And right now I don’t see the Jays competing.

Yeah, streaky is what I was hoping we were getting away from this season with the trades. That's not path to a championship and that's ultimately what we're aiming for.

[Samonadreau]

Moreno hitting .313 and Lourdes .309 so far this season. Varsho's defense is nice but frack me you need to score runs too.

[bluejays]

Well, that was my point when the deal was made. I had no problem giving up Lourdes, but both of them was an abomination when Varsho was just as much of a project as Lourdes where they didn't know what they had in him. I won't critique management too much because they did build up a nice prospect pool up until they dealt so many away, but one area they don't get a pass from me is how readily they appeared to give away combos of prospects when they should have held their guns in how many they were giving away for what they got. Sure some prospects will falter and a select few will flourish, but there are a lot of teams who would have played hardball to get 2 solid prospects for a Barrios, or 2 solid prospects for a Varsho. I both those deals specifically they should've held back because it was apparent they weren't getting back a superstar. Some will argue they weren't going to get the player they wanted but I'd say sure, then work harder to look elsewhere. But overpaying using your prospect pool is what they were angry at Anthopolous, then they did the same thing and ended up in the same situations where the players received didn't amount to much. They have to be smarter when giving up that prospect capital. Plus for defence first IN OUTFIELD? SMH.

[Roof-Daddy]

Hang on now, Varsho was not a "project" like Gurriel.

He had 4.7 fWAR last season and 2.3 fWAR the season before that. Those were his first two full seasons in MLB.

Gurriel had 6 years in the league and had never gone higher than 1.8 fWAR.

[Jason14h]

The trade has looked disasterous for 3 reasons

1. Neither catcher we kept is playing even to a MLB average level. The Jays decided Jansen and especially Kirk were the way forward. Kirk was an all star at 23 so you can’t overly blame them for that decision. And neither Moreno or Kirk have enough power to want them to be a consistent DH .

2. Varsho was expected to take a step forward , both from rule changes and a smaller home ballpark . Unfortunently he has taken a step back

3. Gurriel had developed into a slap hitter with no power . The Jays didn’t want a poor defensive OF with no power who hits .285 and has a bad OBP. We’ll Gurriell has rediscovered some of his power while keeping the high average he had developed.

All 3 combined is making the trade look like a disaster so far . Now it’s a long season , but when you are trading a top 5 prospect in all of baseball you better get a star back . At this point Varsho is not looking like a star.

[transplant99]

The Jays record at 25-20 is identical to where they were a year ago after 45 games.

This with their "ace" looking like a complete disaster and the bullpen being less than ideal for a long stretch earlier on.

They have scored 32 more runs than at this point a year ago but have also given up 22 more against.

They are still in decent shape considering they have played the hardest strength of schedule in MLB thus far.

Get Manoah figured out and maybe one more decent arm out of the pen and they will be just fine IMO.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The Jays record at 25-20 is identical to where they were a year ago after 45 games.

This with their "ace" looking like a complete disaster and the bullpen being less than ideal for a long stretch earlier on.

They have scored 32 more runs than at this point a year ago but have also given up 22 more against.

They are still in decent shape considering they have played the hardest strength of schedule in MLB thus far.

Get Manoah figured out and maybe one more decent arm out of the pen and they will be just fine IMO.

The issue isn’t will the Jays be “fine” - it’s can they compete for a World Series

This team is built to win now , and isn’t showing the improvement that was expected / consistency towards become a true contender

They are a good team . But can they become a great team ? The offence isn’t inspiring a lot of belief for me right now