New Calgary transit fees.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by GGG

Driving to downtown should always be significantly cheaper because if it were the same cost nobody would use transit. As well every transit user subsidizes drivers by removing a car from the road and reducing the neccessary infastructure required to make traffic flow therefore it makes sense that the Drivers subsidize in terms of higher taxes the transit user.

LOL

Green text?

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

The city must have a sweet pension or something because I know my position doesnt cost that much - at least in the private sector.

Dont know if it was already mentioned or not, but no, unless you are ME or higher, the City does NOT have a sweet pension.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

It's not a cash grab. It's the city cutting expenditures in this case subsidized parking. Something you have waxed on about for a while now. You should be happy.

I was wondering how long before I was called on howling both sides.

However in this case it still seems like all the times we've been told to take public transit, now there is a dis-incentive being put in place. I've already granted that I'm of mixed feelings, but in this instance I feel that the downsides outweigh the upsides. If the city is going to help low income families with the $12/month garbage/recycling fees, is there going to be a similar program for low income transit users?

Oh, and the "my taxes paid for those park and ride so it is about time some money start coming from them" is a really bad argument. Really bad. Unless you think they should start charging admission to all the city resources. Prince's Island Park is prime real estate - why don't we charge for people who want to picnic to use it. We pay to keep it clean and landscaped. This gets into the whole public good and free rider principles.

[Resolute 14]

$3 to park at the park and rides, eh?

I'll just park on the street in the nearest neighbourhood.

Hopefully CT uses this scam money to actually improve service.

[JiriHrdina]

So the city got the tax hike down, but did so largely not by cutting spending but rather by moving money around. Lame.

They are still building the 1.5 million dollar gym in city hall which is a slap in the face to tax payers. I'm inclined to head down there when it opens and use the facility since I paid for it.

[Clarkey]

This reeks of social engineering.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Dedly

I don't even park and ride but that $3 a day, up from $0, is brutal. That's a huge deterrant to using transit.

Haven't read the whole thread, but in my opinion the bigger issue is that if they don't start working on burying the LRT now, it'll max out and that will shift the pressure onto the road system. Ridership is almost 50% higher that it was in 2001, and the most they can increase capacity before it HAS TO go underground is 33% by going to four car trains. Transit-oriented developments cannot succeed in Calgary if they people who live in them can't get on the train to get to work (see London at Heritage). What I'm saying is that cost isn't anywhere near the deterrent that not being able to physically put more people on the trains whilst maintaining (barely if at all) adequate personal space is.

[Dan02]

time for double decked trains!

[4X4]

Originally Posted by fredr123

It is a big increase. Sucks for those that rely on it.

However, there seems to be a strong contingent on CP (and elsewhere) that doesn't like to pay for services to the sprawling communities because they never ever use them. Charging the park and ride users for using the park and ride lots should be in line with that philosophy, no? I'm not suggesting you were in one camp or another but just pointing out that this is the kind of fee increase that a lot of people would seemingly support.

Many apologies if this has been said between post ~9 and this one (post ~250?)

Anyway, as per the quoted post, I'm not totally aghast at these rates except that they appear to be straight across the board.
As far as I'm concerned, people in outlying areas should be paying more for services. Not significantly more, but a bit more to at least offset the increased property taxes that the inner city people pay.
Really, it's a bit unfair that Bridlewoodians pay the same to ride the train downtown as those who live by 39th ave. Why is the rate the same? The people getting on at Bridlewood have a much greater chance of getting a seat, plus they're taking the train 3x farther. Why is the rate the same?
I've been to plenty of cities where you have to pay more to travel further. Why not Calgary? I think it's fair. If you're going to the Stamps game from the far south and paying $2 or you're going to the Stpams game from Brentwood and paying $2, why?

[flip]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Many apologies if this has been said between post ~9 and this one (post ~250?)

Anyway, as per the quoted post, I'm not totally aghast at these rates except that they appear to be straight across the board.
As far as I'm concerned, people in outlying areas should be paying more for services. Not significantly more, but a bit more to at least offset the increased property taxes that the inner city people pay.
Really, it's a bit unfair that Bridlewoodians pay the same to ride the train downtown as those who live by 39th ave. Why is the rate the same? The people getting on at Bridlewood have a much greater chance of getting a seat, plus they're taking the train 3x farther. Why is the rate the same?
I've been to plenty of cities where you have to pay more to travel further. Why not Calgary? I think it's fair. If you're going to the Stamps game from the far south and paying $2 or you're going to the Stpams game from Brentwood and paying $2, why?

How though? Plus could I not lie and buy a ticket for Brentwood if I get on at Dalhousie then ride the train all the way downtown? How will CT ever know if I didn't pay the whole amount.

And if you are talking about property tax, why do I have to pay more when I only take the train from Dalhousie to the University? Theoretically shouldn't people downtown have to pay more tax if they are going all the way to the university? I'm closer than they are.

[gottabekd]

I've really liked this idea for a long time.

When I was taking the train to work (at a previoius job), I would park at the train station. I felt kind of guilty because I have good bus service where I live, but would forgo it because I could.

As for raising the price of a monthly transit pass, I can't say that I'm on board with that. I understand that Calgary Transit runs at about a 50% loss. To fully cover the costs, fares would need to be double. But I think it is good that the city subsidizes transit. As it is, I don't spend $75 a month on gas driving to work, so there is no incentive for me to take transit. Raising the prices increases that gap, and I am less likely to find it worthwhile to take transit rather than put yet another car on the road.

Oh, and I don't know how feasible toll booths are, but I also support investigating any means to tax the out-of-towners who steal use of Calgary's infrastructure.

[flip]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

I've really liked this idea for a long time.

When I was taking the train to work (at a previoius job), I would park at the train station. I felt kind of guilty because I have good bus service where I live, but would forgo it because I could.

As for raising the price of a monthly transit pass, I can't say that I'm on board with that. I understand that Calgary Transit runs at about a 50% loss. To fully cover the costs, fares would need to be double. But I think it is good that the city subsidizes transit. As it is, I don't spend $75 a month on gas driving to work, so there is no incentive for me to take transit. Raising the prices increases that gap, and I am less likely to find it worthwhile to take transit rather than put yet another car on the road.

Oh, and I don't know how feasible toll booths are, but I also support investigating any means to tax the out-of-towners who steal use of Calgary's infrastructure.

I would definitely put one in between Calgary and Okotoks, Cochrane, Crossfield, Airdrie, Chestermere etc.

Stupid people living in other cities and using our roads.

I actually don't know if this post should be green or not. what is the colour for half serious.

[Rathji]

After I talked with my wife about this she pointed out BRT ( Bus Rapid Transit) being put in along the proposed SE leg of the LRT. Anyone know the timeline for this to happen? It would actually mean bus service to somewhere close to my community.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by flip

How though? Plus could I not lie and buy a ticket for Brentwood if I get on at Dalhousie then ride the train all the way downtown? How will CT ever know if I didn't pay the whole amount.

And if you are talking about property tax, why do I have to pay more when I only take the train from Dalhousie to the University? Theoretically shouldn't people downtown have to pay more tax if they are going all the way to the university? I'm closer than they are.

London has a pretty good system. You go up to the machine and buy a ticket... It asks you where you're going (gives you zones) and you pay accordingly. 2 pounds for local, 3 pounds for a little beyond and 4 pounds for beyond that.
The way Calgary is growing, why shouldn't people who live in the further areas of town pay more for transit than people who live closer? Taxes are already way lower in the far reaches. If you're going to weigh down a train all the way from a far station, why shouldn't you pay more?

As for the second point about taxes, I'm arguing that people that live downtown already pay more in property taxes and/or rent. Stands to reason that people coming in from outlying areas should pay more to infiltrate the DT core.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I've been to plenty of cities where you have to pay more to travel further. Why not Calgary? I think it's fair. If you're going to the Stamps game from the far south and paying $2 or you're going to the Stpams game from Brentwood and paying $2, why?

Originally Posted by flip

How though? Plus could I not lie and buy a ticket for Brentwood if I get on at Dalhousie then ride the train all the way downtown? How will CT ever know if I didn't pay the whole amount..

Originally Posted by 4X4

London has a pretty good system. You go up to the machine and buy a ticket... It asks you where you're going (gives you zones) and you pay accordingly. 2 pounds for local, 3 pounds for a little beyond and 4 pounds for beyond that.

Yup, Greater Vancouver also has a zone system in place. When I lived there, I had no problem with this. You need to travel further, you pay a little more. If I remember correctly there were 3 zones in the greater area. I had no problem with this. And, as I noted earlier in the thread, about half or so of their park and rides appear to be pay-based.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Ethaniel

Ozy,

My case is they are charging $3 more at the LRT and Bus Park N Ride stations yes, but what is this money going to? Like others have mentioned the city at this time is not trying to help the people very much. So we are talking a 9% tax increase next year plus $900 for parking at a Station + high bus/train fares. What is next? Just build a 1.6 mil training facility and a 25 million dollar walking bridge.

So i am paying the 9% taxes + 900 a year next year for them to extend the cars to 4. Then after that is done......

Don't forget the increase to your utility costs after the City increases the Enmax dividend.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Dont know if it was already mentioned or not, but no, unless you are ME or higher, the City does NOT have a sweet pension.

I dunno, I'm not ME and I think it's a pretty good pension. If a person was to start working at the city in their 20's then they could retire with 80% of the average of their best five earning years for life in their early 50's.

Anyway, the 100k per employee thing is broken down to account for numerous factors. There's the cost of the interview process, the cost of start-up (phone connections, internet hook-ups, setting up the computer...etc), the cost of the equipment the person needs (plus any subscriptions to software licenses), HR costs for setting up the employee, training that the person needs (safety, environmental, software related, etc...plus the cost of the trainer), the work space for the person (sqft cost), medical/dental benefits, pension and of course their base salary. I'm sure I probably missed some things too.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by Rathji

After I talked with my wife about this she pointed out BRT ( Bus Rapid Transit) being put in along the proposed SE leg of the LRT. Anyone know the timeline for this to happen? It would actually mean bus service to somewhere close to my community.

SE BRT is planned to start in Sept of '09.

The south end stops will be Douglasglenn, 130th Ave, Prestwick and McKenzie Towne.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/c..._projects.html


~firebug

[llama64]

Most big cities have transit "zones". Travelling from within one zone costs the minimum amount. Moving between zones costs extra. It's a smart idea implemented very nicely in far larger, more complicated cities then Calgary.

Someone traveling from Sunnyside station into downtown should pay the current fee. Someone traveling from Dalhousie station into downtown should pay a higher fee (3$ to $3.25) for instance.

What a concept... people actually paying for using more of a service.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Rathji

It would actually mean bus service to somewhere close to my community.

Originally Posted by Rathji

The reason this 3 bucks sucks for me is I am forced by transit to drive to the train station since they don't provide service to Mackenzie Towne except during rush hour.

huh?
Ok - during rush hour you have the 151 and 117 that go right into McKenzie Towne. If you were so inclined and lived near the traffic circle, you could even walk or bike across the bridge over Deerfoot and catch the 103, 153 or 133. Any of these buses will take you directly downtown

During non rush hour times (and even during rush hour too) you've got the 416 coming through every half hour and every 40 minutes on Sundays and holidays. Again, if you were desperate and needed more options - cross the bridge into McKenzie and you can catch the 96. These ones will feed into Anderson Station. And since you said services close to your community, why don't you throw the 92 and the 413 into the mix too.

Apparently this is not enough. What specifically would constitute McKenzie Towne receiving bus service in your mind?