Man dies after being tasered in Vancouver Airport

[Dion]

Paul Pritchards speaks about his Taser video and why he's getting paid for it.

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/bc/ondem...ARDpostvid.wmv

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Dion

If you ask me the airport screwed up big time. Mother tells them where he's supposed to be and to check for him. Frankly I don't think anyone looked very hard. Took the easy way out and told the mother he wasn't there. She could have defused the whole friggin situation.

With 17 million travellers through Vancouver International Airport a year I dont think it is really an option for the Airport staff to be searching around the airport for people who can't find other people. Can you imagine how many times people ask the information booth "I am suppose to pick so and so up off of this flight and I can't find them, can you see if he has come through?". It just isn't that realistic.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

With 17 million travellers through Vancouver International Airport a year I dont think it is really an option for the Airport staff to be searching around the airport for people who can't find other people. Can you imagine how many times people ask the information booth "I am suppose to pick so and so up off of this flight and I can't find them, can you see if he has come through?". It just isn't that realistic.

Did you watch the 20 minute documentry? She mistakenly tells him she will meet him at the baggage carousel. She gets there and finds out she can't because it's a secure area. That's why she asked for help. I don't think it's unreasonable considering the situation and the time that he was still in there. A secure area is not the whole airport. It would have taken them a few minutes - also in the documentry

There was also the problem of no interpreter in that secure area. How does a man who doesn't speak english supposed to ask for help? Watch the video. He's standing there wondering how to get help when there's no one around to help him.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Dion

Did you watch the 20 minute documentry? She mistakenly tells him she will meet him at the baggage carousel. She gets there and finds out she can't because it's a secure area. That's why she asked for help. I don't think it's unreasonable considering the situation and the time that he was still in there.

There was also the problem of no interpreter in that secure area. How does a man who doesn't speak english supposed to ask for help?

I haven't watch either the documentary or the video clip yet but I will.


When is the last time you have flown internationally? There are hundreds of people jammed around the baggage carousel waiting for there luggage. You want someone to go ask everyone "hi are you so and so...no ok.....next person....hi are you so and so...no ok". I have been through calgary airport many times and when the overseas flight are in it's like everyone is packed in like a can of sardeens, I can only imagine how many people are at vyr. Also how many people do you think enter vancouver who don't speak any english.....hell....there are many canadians that can't speak english.

This is just a prime example when you invite a friend, relative or anyone to Canada that doesn't speak english. Make sure they have an invitation letter in ENGLISH with contact info.

[Dion]

Emergency radio logs leaked to CTV British Columbia show a 12-minute gap from when Dziekanski lost consciousness and when B.C. Ambulance arrived.

The airport has its own paramedics who could have been at the scene within two minutes, but the airport supervisor did not call them, CTV British Columbia reported.

Witnesses shocked at police reaction

Sima Ashrafina, a witness to the incident who appears in the video, told CTV News that memories of the incident have troubled her for a month.

Ashrafina said she tried desperately to communicate with Dziekanski, even trying Italian at one point, before resorting to sign language.

"I never felt threatened by him," she said through tears after watching the footage. "I'm facing him and there's a glass door and I was signing: 'Just calm down,' and he was ... quiet. He was asking for help, and I couldn't help him."

Ashrafinia claims she heard the RCMP officers talk of Tasers before they entered the secure area. Within 30 seconds, Dziekanski was Tasered.

"Why (did) none of these officers tackle him?" she said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

[soulchoice]

I do hope that an independent inquiry is done with respect to the officers conduct. If they deemed to have used excessive force, hopefully they will be charged and tried as any regular civilian should be in a situation like that(excessive use of force, manslaughter, etc) to the fullest extent of the law. The police in any situation are not above the law and should be dealt with accordingly.

The video is definitely disturbing. Good on the people for telling the real story it seems and being objective about the occurrence. Kudos to the man who taped the video, i would have done the exact same thing with respect to taping the incident if present to ensure the police conduct is monitored.

The video is quite good and certainly answers a few questions for me.

1) As I stated earilier, the guy was clearly, clearly in a SERIOUS state of distress- sweating, panting, smashing inanimate objects - way beyond normal anger (excited delerium, although don't a recognized psychological diagnosis certainly fits the bill here).

2) Someone mentioned the use of an interpreter. Although a possibility, the people on the video thought he spoke Russian when after the fact, it was deemed he spoke Polish. I am not sure police could wait around, while this guy continued his rampage, while

3) Discussion of the taser before entering, as one witness pointed out, isn't out of the ordinary. I wouldn't think discussion of tactics before entering a scene would be completely outrageous.

4) The witness said she didn't feel threatened. I wouldn't either with a large glass barrier between us.

5) Some stated that he gave up before he was tasered. I guess I perceive it quite different. Based on his movements, I would say he was still quite agitated and most certainly wasn't raising his hands to give up at the point he was tasered. I would say, although his back is to the camera, he appeared quite standoffish. He continued to fight on the ground after being tased (keep in mind there is no lasting effects of a taser).

6) What I am VERY disturbed by is the lack of care post tase. It would have been clear that he needed medical attention and it appears none was offered. I would think these RCMP officers are well trained on recognizing symptoms, especially after a tazing, of someone having an adverse reaction. Medical care and proper position of the guy should have been first and foremost on their minds. So in that sense, the officers should be held accountable.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I haven't watch either the documentary or the video clip yet but I will.


When is the last time you have flown internationally? There are hundreds of people jammed around the baggage carousel waiting for there luggage. You want someone to go ask everyone "hi are you so and so...no ok.....next person....hi are you so and so...no ok". I have been through calgary airport many times and when the overseas flight are in it's like everyone is packed in like a can of sardeens, I can only imagine how many people are at vyr. Also how many people do you think enter vancouver who don't speak any english.....hell....there are many canadians that can't speak english.

This is just a prime example when you invite a friend, relative or anyone to Canada that doesn't speak english. Make sure they have an invitation letter in ENGLISH with contact info.

I've flown internationaly quite often. Give them a description of the guy.

The fact is they didn't even try. Correction they tried using a PA system once when clearly there was no system in the secure area. Why didn't staff know this?

A simple act of kindness could have saved this mans life.

[Dion]

Sgt Pierre Lemaitre admits to French CBC that orignal police interpretations were wrong. Statements that came from the officers at the scene. Near end of video.

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/bc/ondem...ANKINtaser.wmv

[Sparks]

Considering the pain involved and the dangers of their use, I wonder why people don't look at someone being tasered in the same light as officers beating someone with a nightstick. Obviously, tasers are better for PR. For all the supporters of police officers' use of tasers in situations where they are not in any apparent danger (due to a subject having a weapon, for example), why don't you picture the cops beating the crap out of someone with a nightstick instead?

I just think that the combination of:

1. Tasers are PR friendly
2. Tasers look better than physical force, even when the level of physical force required would be much less excessive than the use of a taser. (This one's really important)
3. Use of tasers is up to the officer's discretion without clear rules for their use
4. Officers are subject to the same human failings and mistakes as we all are when going by intuition, and they're going by intuition.
5. The police force is much less transparent than we'd like to believe.

...is a recipe for trouble. (in some situations, for what I assume to be a small minority of police officers)

It seems to me that there should be very detailed, specific conditions that must be met before tasers may be used. And I'm not talking conditions like "when a subject is uncooperative." That's so open to interpretation that it's practically useless. Officers ignoring these conditions should not only lose their taser, but be subject to additional punishment from a more transparent police force. As for the last point, why aren't the details of police trials made public? It's ridiculous that they aren't.

Look at this Polish guy. They could have easily subdued him using a small amount of physical force - a claim backed up by a ciminal justice professor in the Edmonton Journal today. There seems to be a real lack of respect for the level of force that the use of a taser really is, for a select few police officers.

[Canuck-Hater]

Just terrible. I would demand an investigation with the officers involved. That is just excessive force. Did they really need to taser him? Twice even?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by fotze

Well it is no consolation I am sure but it is a pretty sure bet that the mother is going to get quite a few million dollars eventually.

I suspect her lawyer will sue the RCMP and the airport.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by fotze

It will be a big one, the video is on world sites like CNN, BBC. RCMP is not having a great public relations couple years.

It's no wonder Pritchard had to fight to get his video back. It makes the RCMP look very guilty.

[Scrambler]

Although I wasn't looking forward to seeing that video, I really wanted to see it to judge for myself if the RCMP's actions were necessary. I have to say I'm saddened and dissapointed, in my mind there are many things the could have done besides taser the guy.

[philip1985]

Saw the video for the very first time today, and it the actions taken by the RCMP look to be a bit aggressive. After watching this video I would not be surprised if there was a lawsuit coming from the family.

[Flames_Gimp]

He is definitely very stressed, you can see he is breathing very heavy.maybe something to do with the cause of death?

[Flames_Gimp]

after watching I don't see what the problem is. Camera angle is behind his back so maybe he made some threatening gestures or something.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Dion

It's no wonder Pritchard had to fight to get his video back. It makes the RCMP look very guilty.

you think so? They wanted to gain control of an erratic individual, and they did. wasn't so excessive. the taser is meant to gain control of someone who is out of control in an efficient and low risk manner.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Dion

Why didn't the police get an interpreter? Someone yelled to the police that they needed one.

how do you know they didnt make a call in for an interpreter?

when they tried to calm him down he starting acting more erratic... they should just let him go crazy well they wait possibly hours for an interpreter?

don't think so.

[Flames_Gimp]

wow, the guys on the criminals side in here are blinded by reality