[PGT] Flames Bad

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The fact that any Flames fan anywhere thinks this team is actually underperforming is wild.

Expectations for a pretty bad team are out of whack, me thinks. This should be a bottom 5 team.

Any tream with a top goalie will have a very good chance of making the playoffs. Where this team is at is solely due to Wolf and has nothing to do with Huska.

Good coaches in the NHL want their team to have puck possession and make things happen. Huska's system is so passive that we just give up trying to get the puck for huge portions of the game. Bad things happen if you stay in your defensive end for a long time, and that is exactly what Huska's system does. This evidently worked in junior, but as a pro head coach Huska loses more games than he wins.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Personally I'm just tired of blaming coaches for everything.

Since Sutter became a full time GM in 2006:
Playfair - 1 season, rookie coach. From all accounts everyone loved him, and he was a genius as an assistant. He still got out coached as the HC.

Keenan - 2 seasons. Apparently Iron Mike was going soft in his old age, and he wasn't hard enough on the players. Playfair was the one drawing up all the plays.

B. Sutter - 3 seasons. The team simply couldn't buy a goal, playing good defense but a pretty uninspired brand of hockey.

*Rebuild*
Hartley - 4 seasons. Won the Adams. Had the Flames giving up the blueline and a lot of grade A changes against in transition. He was hated by the vets. Made Kipper quit hockey, did a number on Sarich and Baertschi.

Gulutzan - Mr. D2D, he just couldn't get the team playing with any consistency, or get a complete buy in. The transition game was way too slow and uninspired.

*Back to relevancy*
Peters - 2 seasons. A great season winning the conference followed by a season of inconsistency. His past racist remarks had him out of the league.

Ward - 1 season. Again had the team playing slow, and uninspired hockey. Another good assistant that was getting out coached.

D. Sutter - 3 seasons. Won the Adams. Had the Flames playing great hockey for a season. Then goaltending and OTL/SOLs did him in. When the results weren't there half the players quit on him. He couldn't get much offense out of Huberdeau or Lindholm.

So were all those coaches terrible, or did the Flames players deserve some of the blame?

Huska - 2 seasons. His first year was a bit of a write-off. The team was still dealing with the fallout from Sutter being fired, and Tre moving on. It was built on a bunch of UFAs that were ready to move on from the Flames. They were still in the playoff race until they absolutely gutted their D core.

*Rebuild/Retool 2.0*
This season the Flames started at the cap floor, being close to $20M under the cap. This the most buy-in I've seen from a Flames locker room since 2004. The Flames should be a bottom feeder, but they defy expectations thanks to a hardworking brand of hockey and great goaltending. The Flames still need more offense, better defense, and improve on both the PK and PP. It's just hard to accomplish with both Hanley and Bahl in your top 4, and Backlund is having a down season. In fact the Flames don't have a player that is top 20 C, top 20 LW, top 20 RW, or a top 20D in the league. The only Star on this team is Wolf.

Finally, I was curious if you had a Huska replacement in mind. Which coach wants to coach Calgary, and is a clear upgrade on Huska?

Did any of those coaches ever get another head coaching gig in the NHL after they left Calgary. That's really says something.

I have no clue what coaches are available and who would want the job. I wanted to give Love a try believing he earned it. But the Flames didn't. He seems to be doing well as an assistant in Washington.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Did any of those coaches ever get another head coaching gig in the NHL after they left Calgary. That's really says something.

I have no clue what coaches are available and who would want the job. I wanted to give Love a try believing he earned it. But the Flames didn't. He seems to be doing well as an assistant in Washington.

How does one judge assistant coaching?

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

How does one judge assistant coaching?

The team is at the top of the league. That may indicate he's doing okay at his job.

The key point is none of those coaches have had another shot at an NHL HC gig. That says something. Obviously I'm excluding Sutter as he is retired likely by choice.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

How does one judge assistant coaching?

It's by if you liked him and thought he should have head the head coach gig in Calgary.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

The team is at the top of the league. That may indicate he's doing okay at his job.

The key point is none of those coaches have had another shot at an NHL HC gig. That says something. Obviously I'm excluding Sutter as he is retired likely by choice.

How did they do last year? He was an AC then too.

There are 3 ACs in Washington and just based on experience I suspect he's low man on that totem pole.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Where this team is at is solely due to Wolf and has nothing to do with Huska.

Originally Posted by Infinit47

The team is at the top of the league. That may indicate he's doing okay at his job.

So one team is exceeding expectations and the coach has zero to do with it.

Another team is doing very well so that must mean the coaching is good.

C'mon man.

[Saqe]

The Flames play a sound defensive structure and that's to Huska's credit. Wolf plays a big part in this year's success but it's not all him either.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So one team is exceeding expectations and the coach has zero to do with it.

Another team is doing very well so that must mean the coaching is good.

C'mon man.

Not only that, but it’s the head coach that has nothing to do with it in the first example, and the assistant coach that has something to do with it in the second.

Silly stuff.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So one team is exceeding expectations and the coach has zero to do with it.

Another team is doing very well so that must mean the coaching is good.

C'mon man.

Nice try, that's not even close to what I said.

Flames play like crap (24th XGF%) and have a hot goalie, Washington is playing well (10th XGF%) and has a hot goalie. Flames are battling for WC2 and Washington is battling for first overall. Low skill teams can still have an okay XGF%, but they may not get the goals due to lack of skill. The Flames evidently have a dearth of forward skill, so the coaching response is to generate less chances?

Washington was 18th last year and Flames were 23rd. Both are getting amazing goaltending this year and Washington improved 16 spots and Calgary has improved 8.

Ignoring the results and avoiding an argument about over or under performing, I don't think the Flames play a style that will win at this level. Being more aggressive in the defensive zone isn't a lack of skill thing, it's a planned system. You can still play zone defense and not collapse way back like the Flames do. Giving the best hockey players in the world extra time and space is not a recipe for success.

I'd really like to know what teams play this passively (5v5 defense and PK) and have been successful. On the offensive side, they aren't scoring goals and have not been all season. Should they not adjust and try something different? I haven't seen any adjustments to style of play this season.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not only that, but it’s the head coach that has nothing to do with it in the first example, and the assistant coach that has something to do with it in the second.

Silly stuff.

For your position to be correct it has to be an assumed fact that both Calgary and Washington are exceeding expectations by the same amount. I don't know how you could possibly quantify that.

Any coach on any team that is top 2 in the league is doing a good job. There is just too much parity to say otherwise. Saying the 15th placed team has a coach doing a better job than the second place team is a tough sell. It's not like this is Lake placid with pro's vs. amateurs.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Saqe

The Flames play a sound defensive structure and that's to Huska's credit. Wolf plays a big part in this year's success but it's not all him either.

Do they? They give up the 10th most high danger chances in the league. That's bottom third and doesn't sound like a sound defensive system to me.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Do they? They go e up the 10th most high danger chances in the league. That's bottom third and doesn't sound like a sound defensive system to me.

With a blueline that has one top pairing guy, one second-pairing guy, and a bunch of 4-8 guys? Not all that terrible.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Ped

With a blueline that has one top pairing guy, one second-pairing guy, and a bunch of 4-8 guys? Not all that terrible.

Yeah that was mainly my point. Considering the lineup I think they've over performed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We have a top pairing dman ?

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Ped

With a blueline that has one top pairing guy, one second-pairing guy, and a bunch of 4-8 guys? Not all that terrible.

My opinion is this isn't a personnel issue. I'm not saying the Flames have amazing dmen and can be a top 10 team, but I think they could be better. A system where you sit around in the defensive end with almost zero puck pressure and just wait for the other team to make something happen or make. A mistake isn't going to work at the NHL level.

I don't see anyone arguing this would be a bottom 5 team without Wolf, and I don't think the Flames are a bottom 5 team. That's why I think Huska is under performing.

i've definitely used a lot of hyperbole when emotional after a loss, but a cold eyes look at how they play eaves me wanting.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Ped

With a blueline that has one top pairing guy, one second-pairing guy, and a bunch of 4-8 guys? Not all that terrible.

My opinion is this isn't a personnel issue. I'm not saying the Flames have amazing dmen and can be a top 10 team, but I think they could be better. A system where you sit around in the defensive end with almost zero puck pressure and just wait for the other team to make something happen or make. A mistake isn't going to work at the NHL level.

I don't see anyone arguing this would be a bottom 5 team without Wolf, and I don't think the Flames are a bottom 5 team. That's why I think Huska is under performing.

Kive definitely used a lot of hyperbole when emotional after a loss, but a cold eyes look at how they play leaves me wanting.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Nice try, that's not even close to what I said.

I quoted your posts, so yes that's what you said.

You've very clearly stated for a long long long time your dislike for Huska. It's no wonder your posts reflect that. Even when the team has success you make it clear that it has nothing to do with the coach. You must be able to take a step back, see what you're typing on this site and admit you have a very clear bias towards him. We all see it. It's okay, we all have biases. If the Oilers do well I will never give them credit, I will still bash them. Forever. Because I have a clear bias against them. I can admit it.

This roster is bad. Not average bad, but like 'they should be bottom 5 or 3' bad. Here they are fighting for a playoff spot with a garbage offense and mainly very bad roster and the coach has nothing to do with it? Seriously, like zero? It's all Wolf, nothing else?

I'm not going to keep going back and forth because it's just so silly. Wolf has indeed been fantastic this season, but once in a while other parts of the team help the team win games. Even the coaching. You can refuse to accept it, but it's just reality.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Did any of those coaches ever get another head coaching gig in the NHL after they left Calgary. That's really says something.

I have no clue what coaches are available and who would want the job. I wanted to give Love a try believing he earned it. But the Flames didn't. He seems to be doing well as an assistant in Washington.

I don't believe they have, though some have found work as assistants.

Did Love earn it? Or did Wolf make him look better in the AHL covering for a lot of miscues like he does for Huska in the NHL? The Wranglers also didn't really miss a beat without him under Trent Cull.

I'm not saying Love is a bad coach, but that's a big jump from the AHL, straight into a HC job. Which is probably why he is still only an assistant at the NHL level.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

We have a top pairing dman ?

And he plays on the second pairing!