Andrei Kuzmenko: Powerplay Tsar

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

...on a legit terrible NHL team.

On a good team, they’d be one of the most legit second lines in the league.

As it stands, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect 90-100 goals from that trio this season.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I also heard (I think it was Steinberg? Maybe it was someone else, like Seravelli?) that the Flames are indeed considering extending Kuzmenko and aren't set by any means on trading him this year by the deadline. It will come down to a comparison between what teams are offering and what they can sign him for.

I just don't see a scenario where the Flames, 5 years from now, benefit from having extended Kuzmenko rather than trading him.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I just don't see a scenario where the Flames, 5 years from now, benefit from having extended Kuzmenko rather than trading him.

Really?

What if he extends for three years @ $7M?

You can always trade him later - it’s harder to find a desperate team who will trade you a 40 goal scorer as a cap dump.

They can’t just play Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, and Sharangovich with a bunch of rookies and dudes on 1-year contracts/ELCs.

That’s no way to run a hockey team.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Really?

What if he extends for three years @ $7M?

You can always trade him later - it’s harder to find a desperate team who will trade you a 40 goal scorer as a cap dump.

They can’t just play Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, and Sharangovich with a bunch of rookies and dudes on 1-year contracts/ELCs.

That’s no way to run a hockey team.

He makes 5 right now? You think he will sign a short term deal for 7M if he scored 40 plus?

How do we make room for guys like Coronato and Honzek? Do we just keep telling them come to camp and take a job, and when they do just send them back down?

[D as in David]

I think there is a contract term that makes sense for the Flames to sign him but that term would be far less than what Kuzmenko would be looking for.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

On a good team, they’d be one of the most legit second lines in the league.

As it stands, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect 90-100 goals from that trio this season.

I’ll take the unders on that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Really?

They can’t just play Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, and Sharangovich with a bunch of rookies and dudes on 1-year contracts/ELCs.

That’s no way to run a hockey team.

Why not? They chose to do that in goal.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Yeah makes zero sense to sign him, he doesn't help in the short term or long term. Keeping would essentially block a deserving young player who put in the work to win a job in camp.

Who cares what the return is, I will take a 3rd over signing someone to a 4-5 year extension at 7M plus when he has no value around the league. Kind of speaks volumes about the player, and why you shouldn't be signing him.

I don't think the timing is right for the Flames to sign him either, but why would they sign him "to a 4-5 year extension at 7M plus when he has no value around the league". If he has no value, they can sign him for much less.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Why not? They chose to do that in goal.

Because you need to build a culture.

Sharangovich-Kadri-Kuzmenko would be the unquestioned first line for at least the next two years, probably three, no matter who we draft.

With very rare exceptions, forwards do not step into the NHL and dominate before they’re twenty.

Having a reliable first line protects the prospects.

Like, if they traded Kuzmenko, the first thing they’d have to do is go sign another top-9 winger.

So like, just pay Kuzmenko.

That extra second or third isn’t worth nearly as much as an elite offensive NHLer.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I don't think the timing is right for the Flames to sign him either, but why would they sign him "to a 4-5 year extension at 7M plus when he has no value around the league". If he has no value, they can sign him for much less.

A few have said the 7M number so I used that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Because you need to build a culture.

Sharangovich-Kadri-Kuzmenko would be the unquestioned first line for at least the next two years, probably three, no matter who we draft.

With very rare exceptions, forwards do not step into the NHL and dominate before they’re twenty.

Having a reliable first line protects the prospects.

Like, if they traded Kuzmenko, the first thing they’d have to do is go sign another top-9 winger.

So like, just pay Kuzmenko.

That extra second or third isn’t worth nearly as much as an elite offensive NHLer.

They don’t need to sign a top 9 winger at all. They didn’t go sign top 4 dmen to replace Hanifin and Tanev. They didn’t sign a goalie.
Like it or not Huberdeau is your top line winger to protect prospects.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Bonded

They don’t need to sign a top 9 winger at all. They didn’t go sign top 4 dmen to replace Hanifin and Tanev. They didn’t sign a goalie.
Like it or not Huberdeau is your top line winger to protect prospects.

They probably would have to sign someone to maintain the cap floor

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Francis on 960 this morning mentioned how the Flames are still trying to figure out what to do with him. He mentioned that people around the league know exactly what the player brings which is high skill but wildly inconsistent efforts and that he's the type of player that doesn't translate well to the playoffs. He's going to be movable at the deadline but he may not fetch as much as we think because of the fact that he's not the type of player that excels in the playoffs. If he has a really good season and fits in the locker room I wouldn't have an issue with an extension but only if it was in the range of 2-3 years and I really don't know if there are going to be many teams out there offering him a 4 year contract or more given his age and question marks. He seems to be a player that fans like a lot more than GM's.

Since he's never played a playoff game it's nice to see Francis rolling his crystal thru a pile of poop again, I remember another Russian who these "experts" said couldn't bring it in the playoffs but by the time he was Kuzmenko's age he was a playoff beast, his name was Pavel Datsyuk.

You can't teach the type of skill Kuzmenko has, it only takes a couple of these rare skilled plays to win a playoff series.

With the cap increasing give him 4 X $6.5

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Since he's never played a playoff game it's nice to see Francis rolling his crystal thru a pile of poop again, I remember another Russian who these "experts" said couldn't bring it in the playoffs but by the time he was Kuzmenko's age he was a playoff beast, his name was Pavel Datsyuk.

You can't teach the type of skill Kuzmenko has, it only takes a couple of these rare skilled plays to win a playoff series.

With the cap increasing give him 4 X $6.5

This is another great point - with the cap going up, so too rises the floor.

If they’re trading Andersson, they’re down another $4.55M.

They have to sign someone.

Just sign the guy who has already demonstrated chemistry with everyone else who’s under contract the next half decade instead of rolling the dice on someone else who flat out won’t have Kuzmenko’s offensive ability.

It just seems to me that a guy who can pot 40 and have a bottom -3 man advantage operating at nearly 25% for over a month while not being great defensively is an asset for a rebuilding team.

[activeStick]

Lol, which poster was it that called into last night's postgame? He started with a few of his key points, which were that 1) Kuzmenko is the odd man out of the forward group based on his assessment and 2) Kuzmenko's skill could be replaced by someone like Coronato. After Pat thoroughly countered the points, plus some other ones, the caller ended up pivoting to Kuzmenko being "Kovalchuk lite", when Pat then commented that Kovalchuk was a pretty darn skilled player. It was an interesting perspective from the caller that left me thoroughly confused.

[Sylvanfan]

When I saw Kuzmenko showing Zary the tablet after he scored the PP goal last night it made me think of that story from Terry Crisp about Sergei Makarov. Crisp is drawing up a play and Makarov shakes his head and erases it and says should be like this. Than says something like "I get from Tikhonov...him good coach. You not."

I wonder if Kuzmenko pulled this on Savard at the end of last season...no not like this, do this. Maybe you keep him around a bit to teach his teammates how to make a powerplay work.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

When I saw Kuzmenko showing Zary the tablet after he scored the PP goal last night it made me think of that story from Terry Crisp about Sergei Makarov. Crisp is drawing up a play and Makarov shakes his head and erases it and says should be like this. Than says something like "I get from Tikhonov...him good coach. You not."

I wonder if Kuzmenko pulled this on Savard at the end of last season...no not like this, do this. Maybe you keep him around a bit to teach his teammates how to make a powerplay work.

I believe the quote from Makarov was something along the lines of:

Tikhonov: Good coach. Bad person.
You: Good person. Bad coach.

Edit: Found the following from an old Hockey News article:

Terry Crisp bent over backwards to show Sergei Makarov respect when the great Soviet winger came to play in the NHL for Calgary in 1989. One day the Flames coach was drawing up a play on the board, illustrating to Makarov how to position himself. Suddenly, Makarov grabbed the chalk, crossed everything out and started making his own diagrams. “Tikhonov bad guy, good coach,” he said to Crisp (in reference to the late Soviet bench boss). “You? Good guy, bad coach.” Crisp, who had led the Flames to a Stanley Cup the year before, said Makarov, who played in the Soviet Union on the KLM line with Vladimir Krutov and Igor Larionov, probably had more talent than anybody he had ever coached.

“But I’d played for Scotty Bowman and Fred Shero, two of the best coaches in the business,” he said. ”It wasn’t as if I just fell off a turnip truck.”

https://thehockeynews.com/news/backc...d-a-huge-stick

[GreenLantern2814]

Obviously, keeping Kuzmenko was predicated on him keeping the power play operating at 24% and not going pointless in ten consecutive games.

I was wrong, it was bound to happen eventually. I had a good run.

[Erick Estrada]

It appears he's kind of settling back into the player that was frustrating the Canucks coaching staff. It's only November but he's certainly not making a case for a long term contract.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

On a good team, they’d be one of the most legit second lines in the league.

As it stands, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect 90-100 goals from that trio this season.

They are on pace for 47.

Edit: Sorry, missed your last post.