This is a rebuild

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by blankall

Agree and disagree. There are two parties to a contract here. Huberdeau took a payment based on his previous 115 point season. I'm sure his camp also expressed a desire for a large contract and used that 115 point season as a bargaining point, with the expectation that play would continue. Huberdeau certainly wasn't selling himself as a 55 point player.

Was he selling himself as a franchise player?

At the moment, Huberdeau's salary is the 11th highest in the NHL. Here are the players ahead of him:

McKinnon
McDavid
Panarin
Matthews
Karlsson
Pastrnak
Doughty
Tavares
Marner
Price

After the top four, I'm not seeing any franchise players on that list. A lot of franchises haven't got anyone that could be fairly described as a franchise player. Some franchise players are on older contracts, signed when the cap was smaller, and therefore making less money. Some guys who are definitely not franchise players were signed to big-money deals in the expectation of the cap going up sharply (which is scheduled to happen starting next year).

The Flames overpaid Huberdeau, not because they expected him to score 115 points every season, but because they were deathly afraid of the PR hit they would take by losing their best forward to free agency two years running. (This was a legitimate fear.) His agent was smart enough to advise his client to shut up and take the money. Should he have held out for less?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Lindholm played his way out of $20M this season.

Huberdeau took the money. He signed the buyout-proof, untradeable contract to secure his family’s future for generations.

$84M (roughly $110M Canadian) ought to buy some professionalism.

Make your fancy passes, produce on the PP, sell some jerseys, and don’t make waves.

And I like Huberdeau.

Is this an issue anyone serious has discussed?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The only move Huberdeau can make is to LTIR

The CBA expires as the end of 25/26. When the NHL negotiated in 2005 they gave unlimited buyouts. When they negotiated in 2013 they gave two free buyouts. I strongly hope/expect that the NHL will have another round of buyouts in 2026 as a free give to the PA for concessions the PA makes. It is basically free money for the PA because it opens up cap space for the other members. That in my mind is the best longterm solution to that contract. It also conveniently lines up with when the Flames are expected to be competitive again. Huberdeau buyout incoming in January 2027 after a 4 month work stoppage.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Was he selling himself as a franchise player?

At the moment, Huberdeau's salary is the 11th highest in the NHL. Here are the players ahead of him:

McKinnon
McDavid
Panarin
Matthews
Karlsson
Pastrnak
Doughty
Tavares
Marner
Price

After the top four, I'm not seeing any franchise players on that list. A lot of franchises haven't got anyone that could be fairly described as a franchise player. Some franchise players are on older contracts, signed when the cap was smaller, and therefore making less money. Some guys who are definitely not franchise players were signed to big-money deals in the expectation of the cap going up sharply (which is scheduled to happen starting next year).

I'd put Pastrnak, Price, and Doughty as franchise players. Tavares and Karlsson are debatable especially on their original teams.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I'd put Pastrnak, Price, and Doughty as franchise players. Tavares and Karlsson are debatable especially on their original teams.

Their original teams didn't pay them the same.

Anyway, there's no doubt Huberdeau is not matching either his old performances or his new salary. But so what? How is this remotely relevant to a rebuild? What he does going forward? That's relevant.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Their original teams didn't pay them the same.

Anyway, there's no doubt Huberdeau is not matching either his old performances or his new salary. But so what? How is this remotely relevant to a rebuild? What he does going forward? That's relevant.

Oh I know, maybe the lesson is don't pay a guy a franchise level contract if his original team willingly lets him go. I think if Tavares stayed with the
Islanders he'd be a franchise guy there.

Huberdeau doesn't matter until the Flames have enough guys to sign and need his cap. That is at least 4 years out and likely longer.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If you want to provide an alternative actual analysis please go ahead.
Otherwise your view is simply an application of your own biases, and based on an even more flawed and limited data set.

I've provided data.

You can counter with actual data.

Here Jiri, you dropped your mic!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The CBA expires as the end of 25/26. When the NHL negotiated in 2005 they gave unlimited buyouts. When they negotiated in 2013 they gave two free buyouts. I strongly hope/expect that the NHL will have another round of buyouts in 2026 as a free give to the PA for concessions the PA makes. It is basically free money for the PA because it opens up cap space for the other members. That in my mind is the best longterm solution to that contract. It also conveniently lines up with when the Flames are expected to be competitive again. Huberdeau buyout incoming in January 2027 after a 4 month work stoppage.

I'm not sure there is any expectation Calgary will be competitive in 2 years, or even close to that. Most of their draft picks in the next two years will not even have played in the NHL by that time. And Marky and Andersson are likely gone by then. I think the expectation is that in the 2026 and 2026 drafts Calgary should hopefully be picking top 5.

Since most of the money owned Huberdeau is in bonuses, Calgary would save little actual money in this type of buyout, although it would save a ton of cap space.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I'd put Pastrnak, Price, and Doughty as franchise players. Tavares and Karlsson are debatable especially on their original teams.

Price was a franchise player when he was playing; now he's dead cap space.

I'd say that if the Kings have a franchise player it's probably Kopitar. Pastrnak I give you; my eyes slipped past him on the list without checking his numbers.

Still, that gives you a 50-50 chance of getting a franchise player if you randomly pick a guy making $10.5 million or more. If you follow the metaphor, I think the Flames were paying Huberdeau to be a Marner and not a Matthews.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Oh I know, maybe the lesson is don't pay a guy a franchise level contract if his original team willingly lets him go. I think if Tavares stayed with the
Islanders he'd be a franchise guy there.

The Islanders didn't willingly let Tavares go. He signed with the Leafs because that's where he wanted to play. Wasn't it rumoured at the time that he actually turned down more money from the Isles?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Is this an issue anyone serious has discussed?

I was responding directly to his Lindholm comparison, and why it’s different.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Was he selling himself as a franchise player?

At the moment, Huberdeau's salary is the 11th highest in the NHL. Here are the players ahead of him:

McKinnon
McDavid
Panarin
Matthews
Karlsson
Pastrnak
Doughty
Tavares
Marner
Price

After the top four, I'm not seeing any franchise players on that list. A lot of franchises haven't got anyone that could be fairly described as a franchise player. Some franchise players are on older contracts, signed when the cap was smaller, and therefore making less money. Some guys who are definitely not franchise players were signed to big-money deals in the expectation of the cap going up sharply (which is scheduled to happen starting next year).

The Flames overpaid Huberdeau, not because they expected him to score 115 points every season, but because they were deathly afraid of the PR hit they would take by losing their best forward to free agency two years running. (This was a legitimate fear.) His agent was smart enough to advise his client to shut up and take the money. Should he have held out for less?

Pasternak Isn’t franchise ?

I stopped reading the post.

The guy is 4th in league scoring , has 102 (yes 102) goals since the start of last season , and has the 5th most points since the start of last season behind McD, Drais, Kuch and McKinnon .

If this guy isn’t franchise I don’t know who is

Edit - Saw you mention he slipped as I wrote this

Crazy how good he is

[traptor]

The huberdeau contract might be the worst mistake this franchise has ever made.

It's the worst contract in the NHL for a second year in a row.

It's bad now and there's a solid chance it's just as bad, if not an even bigger issue in years 5,6,7 and 8 when we're trying to seriously compete again.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Price was a franchise player when he was playing; now he's dead cap space.

I'd say that if the Kings have a franchise player it's probably Kopitar. Pastrnak I give you; my eyes slipped past him on the list without checking his numbers.

Still, that gives you a 50-50 chance of getting a franchise player if you randomly pick a guy making $10.5 million or more. If you follow the metaphor, I think the Flames were paying Huberdeau to be a Marner and not a Matthews.

Given it was the same amount they offered Gaudreau (and he's a Marner, not a Matthews) this seems fair.

A lot of factors went into the offer to Huberdeau. His 115 points, the need to sign him at all (many posters here were saying "sure you signed a 115 point guy but unless he signs long term it's a failure), the offer to Gaudreau for the identical position and place in the roster, the hoped direction of the team, etc.

[traptor]

10.5x8 with every protection should get you a franchise player or atleast a top line player.

The flames are at fault for giving it to him and he's at fault for not even remotely living up to it.

Huberdeau has ranged from middle-6 to below replacement level in his time here.

Impact wise I would rank him only above our 4th line players.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The Islanders didn't willingly let Tavares go. He signed with the Leafs because that's where he wanted to play. Wasn't it rumoured at the time that he actually turned down more money from the Isles?

Yeah, he is the exception on it. He walked from the Isles but he'd be the franchise guy on the Islanders if he was still there IMO.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by traptor

10.5x8 with every protection should get you a franchise player or atleast a top line player.

The flames are at fault for giving it to him and he's at fault for not even remotely living up to it.

Huberdeau has ranged from middle-6 to below replacement level in his time here.

Impact wise I would rank him only above our 4th line players.

Looks at thread title. Notes irrelevant "ranking".

[traptor]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Looks at thread title. Notes irrelevant "ranking".

We have him for 7 mores years.

It's relevant to our rebuild (if that's what this is)

He will still be on the books one way or another when we're trying to nit be rebuilding anymore.

[Manhattanboy]

Not to start the trade Huberdeau for Gaudreau chat again, but are there any other teams in a similar situation with an expensive-underperforming-supposedly-high-end-talent-locked-up-for-a-long-time (EUPSHETLUFALT) asset that we could look at trading for?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I'm not sure there is any expectation Calgary will be competitive in 2 years, or even close to that. Most of their draft picks in the next two years will not even have played in the NHL by that time. And Marky and Andersson are likely gone by then. I think the expectation is that in the 2026 and 2026 drafts Calgary should hopefully be picking top 5.

Since most of the money owned Huberdeau is in bonuses, Calgary would save little actual money in this type of buyout, although it would save a ton of cap space.

I am presuming they would do it for the cap space. They may not be competitive but it could allow them to throw big bucks at some of their prospects after ELC and open the window up further between say 2028-2034. I personally think that the 26/27 season is the season that it is most likely that the Flames seriously compete for a playoff spot again.