[Rumour] TSN: Hanifin decision expected in coming days. D market waits on Tanev

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Rebuttal:

The funny thing is that Hanifin sounds like how McDavid looks.. lol

grunt grunt. hahaha from that video with Tanev at Team Sports.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What a false premise for a question anyway. One of those isn't costing you the other.

Half of these teams interested in Hanifin are going to lose in the first round if they even make the playoffs. That’s a 17-24 pick, which is where I’ve seen Tij going in mock drafts.

And I didn’t even state any premises; I asked a question.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Half of these teams interested in Hanifin are going to lose in the first round if they even make the playoffs. That’s a 17-24 pick, which is where I’ve seen Tij going in mock drafts.

Half of these teams interested in Hanifin are going to win in the first round if they even make the playoffs. That’s a 25-32 pick, which is lower than I’ve seen Tij going in mock drafts.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by butterfly

It’s possible he may not have but it’s highly probable his best days are not in the future. Aging curves peak well before most people realize it.

Things work differently for cerebral type d-mem. The curve is totally different. It typically takes them until 25-28 to even figure the game out.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by butterfly

If you had Tij Iginla, would you trade him straight up for Hanifin at 8x$7.5?

If you had one of the ten or so first round picks that will have little to no impact ever in the NHL, would you trade him straight up for Hanifin at 8 x $7.5?

I don't mean to single you out, please do not take offense. Truth be told, I will be 100% fine with trading Hanifin if that's the route they go. I truly believe that as long as the package in return is good or the contract is as rumoured, it is a win-win.

My point is that so many people get drawn into this "blow-it up" and/or "acquire as many picks as possible" without realizing that the Flames would be lucky if one of the assets in return turns into a Hanifin type. Sure there is a chance that more than one piece is useful, but there is just as much a chance that none of the return ends up being an impact piece.

Look no further than the return on Jarome Iginla!

[Enoch Root]

1) 27 is just the beginning of prime years for a defenseman
2) Hanifin plays a low-contact, game and has averaged 80 games per year (injury free)
3) little playoff mileage
4) his game is based on skating, which usually has a longer lifespan and peak plateau

The argument that we'd be getting his declining years is preposterous.

Also, the cap increased 5% in the last 5 years, and will probably increase 25% in the next 5 years.

Having said all that, I would prefer to trade him than sign him, though I am fine either way.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by butterfly

If you had Tij Iginla, would you trade him straight up for Hanifin at 8x$7.5?

There are too many unknowns here to answer that. How close are you to challenging for the Cup? What does your forward group vs your defensman group look like? If I was a GM and thought my team had a good shot at a SC if I added Noah Hanifin would I trade Tij Iginla? You bet your ass I would.

[konradical]

If NJ are a front runner I wonder if something like

NJ: Hanifin
CGY: 1st, Siengenthaler, Casey

You get your 1st and a good prospect in Casey (who will have a tough time breaking in as Nemec and Hughes coming in, plus Hamilton and Hanifin)

and you get Siegenthaler who can replace Hanifin for that top 4 role going forward and still contend for that playoff spot.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

There are too many unknowns here to answer that. How close are you to challenging for the Cup? What does your forward group vs your defensman group look like? If I was a GM and thought my team had a good shot at a SC if I added Noah Hanifin would I trade Tij Iginla? You bet your ass I would.

You are the Calgary Flames in February 2024.

[ComixZone]

I believe NJD was noted as being the front runner for Tanev, not Hanifin.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure why this is funny? This is the logical approach if you are not a prime UFA destination. Which the Flames are not.

What is your solution? Pay top tier UFA prices for second tier UFAs? Sounds like a recipe for losing hockey games.

The best time to cash out on an asset is when it has peaked in value. A peak means going forward the value proposition is downhill. Flames are likely at this point with Hanifin. He is a solid defenceman, no doubt, but likely is not going to get much better from this point forward. He is a huge asset to a playoff team in the middle of their competitive window. The Flames need to accept that they are no longer within this window and maximize the futures return for him.

And for the record, yes, the Flames should be doing this for pretty much every 27 year old pending UFA. They would be stupid not to.

Not chasing, and overpaying UFAs is definitely a sound strategy. And yes, the Flames, as a less desirable market, need to focus more on drafting and development.

I think almost everyone agrees with those things, more or less.

However, that does not mean that they should never sign anyone past 27. If you never have vets, you'll be the young guns forever. You need vets, and when players want to stay here at a reasonable price, that is a good thing.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

(Again, I would prefer to trade Hanifin, I am just arguing the strategy point on a general level)

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure why this is funny? This is the logical approach if you are not a prime UFA destination. Which the Flames are not.

What is your solution? Pay top tier UFA prices for second tier UFAs? Sounds like a recipe for losing hockey games.

And for the record, yes, the Flames should be doing this for pretty much every 27 year old pending UFA. They would be stupid not to.

Cup winning rosters without 27+ year olds. Lots of holes. You need a balance of vets and younger players. Commit to the good players and stay away from the middling UFAs that will actually sign 4 years deals at 27

Spoiler!

9 Jack Eichel
10 Nicolas Roy
22 Mike Amadio
28 William Carrier
43 Paul Cotter
55 Keegan Kolesar
14 Nicolas Hague
49 Ivan Barbashev
21 Brett Howden
2 Zach Whitecloud
16 Pavel Dorofeyev
42 Daniil Miromanov
94 Brayden Pachal
6 Kaedan Korczak
46 Jonas Rondbjerg
33 Adin Hill
56 Sheldon Rempal
30 Jiri Patera
15 Jake Leschyshyn
36 Logan Thompson

Avs

Spoiler!

96 Mikko Rantanen
29 Nathan MacKinnon
8 Cale Makar
95 Andre Burakovsky
13 Valeri Nichushkin
37 JT Compher
18 Alex Newhook
49 Samuel Girard
25 Logan O'Connor
16 Nicolas Aube-Kubel
4 Bowen Byram
17 Tyson Jost
62 Artturi Lehkonen
56 Kurtis MacDermid
28 Ryan Murray
78 Nico Sturm
44 Kiefer Sherwood
59 Ben Meyers
60 Justus Annunen
9 Dylan Sikura
22 Stefan Matteau
79 Jordan Gross
20 Justin Barron
61 Martin Kaut
31 Jonas Johansson
75 Sampo Ranta
11 Mikhail Maltsev

Spoiler!

21 Brayden Point
98 Mikhail Sergachev
71 Anthony Cirelli
19 Barclay Goodrow
7 Mathieu Joseph
81 Erik Cernak
79 Ross Colton
92 Alexander Volkov
88 Andrei Vasilevskiy
60 Alex Barre-Boulet
52 Cal Foote
46 Gemel Smith
5 Andreas Borgman
67 Mitchell Stephens
85 Daniel Walcott
3 Fredrik Claesson
33 Christopher Gibson
56 Ben Thomas

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not chasing, and overpaying UFAs is definitely a sound strategy. And yes, the Flames, as a less desirable market, need to focus more on drafting and development.

I think almost everyone agrees with those things, more or less.

However, that does not mean that they should never sign anyone past 27. If you never have vets, you'll be the young guns forever. You need vets, and when players want to stay here at a reasonable price, that is a good thing.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

(Again, I would prefer to trade Hanifin, I am just arguing the strategy point on a general level)

No one is saying don’t get vets. I was happy with the Backlund deal. Huberdeau and Kadri ensure that we will have vets for years.

But enough of mediocre hockey and giving the people responsible for it max term raises.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by butterfly

You are the Calgary Flames in February 2024.

Get rid of the emotional call out to Tij. I'd be much more interested in trading Hanifin for a 15th overall pick than a 27-32 overall pick. The late the pick coming back the more I am interested in keeping Hanifin

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Get rid of the emotional call out to Tij. I'd be much more interested in trading Hanifin for a 15th overall pick than a 27-32 overall pick. The late the pick coming back the more I am interested in keeping Hanifin

If it’s NJ, who knows if they even make the playoffs? I know the rumor was for Tanev and not Hanifin.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Nothing wrong with keeping Hanifin.
But if the trade offers are strong enough, you take them.
Essentially I'm happy either way as long as Conroy doesn't pass on incredible offers for the sake of staying competitive.

[Enoch Root]

I was just looking at the cap and how peoples' perceptions change. Here is how much the cap has increased, in 5-year increments:

2009: $56.7
2014: $64.3 - 13.4%
2019: $79.5 - 23.6%
2024: $83.5 - 5.0%
2029: $104 -- 25%?

Over the last 5 years, due to Covid, the cap has been essentially held flat. In other 5 year periods, it rose significantly more, and we are poised to see it rise at 5% per year for the next while.

Fans have gotten used to the idea that all teams are going to be crammed to the cap all the time. However, we need to understand that the last 5 years was in fact a very unique time. Going forward, we will be back to the more normal, seems-expensive-now-but-will-look-great-in-a-few years world.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Get rid of the emotional call out to Tij. I'd be much more interested in trading Hanifin for a 15th overall pick than a 27-32 overall pick. The late the pick coming back the more I am interested in keeping Hanifin

Also, who knows if some team with a Tij level pick wouldn’t trade it for the Hanifin 1st and the Flames 2nd? Or the Vancouver pick and the Flames 2nd? Or even both 1sts we get in trades?

Ideally we get a 1st for each of Hanifin and Tanev and orchestrate the draft per scouting.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Mercer isn't as untouchable as people think.

Mercer for Tanev + 2024 first round pick from Vancouver

More likely the Flames are adding picks if they get Mercer in a trade than adding more players on top of Tanev.

What those picks are and their worth I am not sure.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by shutout

Mercer for Tanev + 2024 first round pick from Vancouver

More likely the Flames are adding picks if they get Mercer in a trade than adding more players on top of Tanev.

What those picks are and their worth I am not sure.

Ewww no!

The Flames need the extra picks. Do not trade that 2024 1st.

I get people see the Hronek deal and how it’s worked for Vancouver but there’s a massive difference between the two teams.

The Flames do not have a Quinn Hughes or an Elias Pettersson they’re trying to compliment. They need to draft those players, and they need extra “bullets” in the chamber to take shots at drafting them. Dawson Mercer is not that player.

If you want to trade Hanifin or Tanev for a player like Mercer, I’m not entirely against that but the focus has to be on giving our scouting staff the opportunity to find players of a skill level we don’t yet have.