[Rumour] Francis: All contract talks on hold for Flames

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I'll turn the table: What leads you to believe that this "on hold" rumor is not based on an ownership directive? I'm genuinely interested to hear if I'm just overlooking something blatantly obvious in that regard.

Sure, it was the plan he had all along. One of the rumours from Rasta was that Conroy set a quarter season deadline to deal with the UFAs and has now moved up that deadline because of how bad the teams looks without Sutter being to blame.

Lindholm never sounded particularly close to done and Conroy wasn't worried about signing Hanifin to a long term deal that was reasonable because he could still be traded.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is Conroy's job to sign players, and to decide which players are to be signed, not ownership's

Well they needed ownerships permission to okay a trade for Jason Zucker, and when they couldn't reach him, deal didn't go through. Ownership has more control than most people realize. I doubt from then to now, Edward has allowed Conroy to have full control on what goes on

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames need to play an all out attack

SJ fooled teams reporters into thinking EK was a good player this way. Lets get those point totals up

Do you even read what you post? It's mind-numbing.

Erik Karlsson is by far the top offensive d-man from his era of the NHL. SJ didn't need to fool anyone- they changed their style of play to suit him not to shop him. You can't just blanket expect the same strategy to apply to someone like hanifin, who has no where NEAR the skill level EK has in his surgically repaired Achilles tendon alone.

Ridiculous and stupid level of homerism.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Letting Valimaki walk we're left hoping one of the mid/late rounders like Poirier, Solovyov or Morin pan out to fill one of the four empty spots long run and will clearly need to bring back a good young blueline prospect in any Hanifin deal

I don't think we should be too worried about Rapid City's D depth right now. Let's start a little higher on the concern list.

[Bubba17]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I can't see a GM pivoting like this based on 7-8 poor games at the beginning of the season. Just a few weeks ago these signings "were close" but a few games later it is now "on hold". If Conroy was fully committed to re-signing these two players, it would be beyond concerning for that small of a sample size to be swaying his course of action on the team's future. There's no way a guy that has learned from the likes of Burke and Treliving would be that rash.

Where else is the directive coming from? The only place is ownership that is starting to get a hint that fan apathy (dwindling attendance) and the obvious continued issues on ice from last year are not going away with new coaches and positive vibes. Methinks they may finally be seeing the light that fans are not going to support this team if they aren't at least going out there and playing hard and are growing concerned about locking in a fractured room for the rest of the decade.

I'll turn the table: What leads you to believe that this "on hold" rumor is not based on an ownership directive? I'm genuinely interested to hear if I'm just overlooking something blatantly obvious in that regard.

Maybe Conroy has a number in mind, offered it, and the player didn't accept the offer while asking for more. A good negotiator (I will use Conroy in this example) would pull back his offer and wait where he can maybe offer less. He always has the ability to trade all of his UFA's or sign them at his price point. This is the way a good negotiator would do it, unless the player is Jack Hughes type and you really don't have a choice.

Lindholm, Tanev, Hanafin, Zadorov are all replaceable pieces. I would even buy out Kadri after the season and eat the $1.9M per year just to be rid of him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by camm13

Well they needed ownerships permission to okay a trade for Jason Zucker, and when they couldn't reach him, deal didn't go through. Ownership has more control than most people realize. I doubt from then to now, Edward has allowed Conroy to have full control on what goes on

And way less day to day influence than most people realize

[DazzlinDino]

Conroy said he prefers a team approach so Edwards is likely working with the group and they decide together. This most likely is not an Edwards versus management decision.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Do you even read what you post? It's mind-numbing.

Erik Karlsson is by far the top offensive d-man from his era of the NHL. SJ didn't need to fool anyone- they changed their style of play to suit him not to shop him. You can't just blanket expect the same strategy to apply to someone like hanifin, who has no where NEAR the skill level EK has in his surgically repaired Achilles tendon alone.

Ridiculous and stupid level of homerism.

lol why would you narrow in on Hanifin when Huberdeau is the obvious comparison along with Lindholm and Kadri to a lesser extent. You really hate Dino

[Enoch Root]

It would likely require ownership's (or at least Bean's) approval to SIGN a guy for $70M or so, but it doesn't take their approval to NOT do it.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Bonded

lol why would you narrow in on Hanifin when Huberdeau is the obvious comparison along with Lindholm and Kadri to a lesser extent. You really hate Dino

I don't hate anyone. But Dino could stand to think more and post less.

Huberdeau and Kadri can't be traded. There's no one in the league who will touch those contracts. It's even dumber if the reference was to one of those players. I think it was to Hanifin, a puck moving D man who we are trying to trade and who would be subject to the title of the thread. And comparing Hanifin to Erik Karlsson is malarky.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Sure, it was the plan he had all along. One of the rumours from Rasta was that Conroy set a quarter season deadline to deal with the UFAs and has now moved up that deadline because of how bad the teams looks without Sutter being to blame.

Lindholm never sounded particularly close to done and Conroy wasn't worried about signing Hanifin to a long term deal that was reasonable because he could still be traded.

This aligns with what I was thinking.This was part of a fall back plan but the management group wanted to see what the real issue, or potential was for this group. It is a better situation for Huska as the focus shifts from winning to playing the right way

[Jake]

Unfortunately I don't think the "aforementioned Flames pillars" (Hanifin and Lindholm) are the pillars that are not holding up their weight. Huberdeau and Kadri can't be moved, and they are the problem.

[GioforPM]

This could be a few things combined. It's a good pressure move to simply walk away from the table, so if negotiations have been tough to get across the goal line, maybe Conroy's just saying "fine". Also, maybe he is thinking (mainly about Lindholm I bet, but also maybe Hanifin) that the talks are a distraction and that's why their play has been so unfocused and plodding. Lindholm should be having a great season in a contract year, but he's not. Conroy may be saying "you want $9M from me or someone else - prove it).

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I don't hate anyone. But Dino could stand to think more and post less.

Huberdeau and Kadri can't be traded. There's no one in the league who will touch those contracts. It's even dumber if the reference was to one of those players. I think it was to Hanifin, a puck moving D man who we are trying to trade and who would be subject to the title of the thread. And comparing Hanifin to Erik Karlsson is malarky.

Erik Karlsson was untradeable till this off-season as well. Before his last season he was on the do not touch list of basically any team. Hanifin is an UFA and not really comparable.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Do you even read what you post? It's mind-numbing.

Erik Karlsson is by far the top offensive d-man from his era of the NHL. SJ didn't need to fool anyone- they changed their style of play to suit him not to shop him. You can't just blanket expect the same strategy to apply to someone like hanifin, who has no where NEAR the skill level EK has in his surgically repaired Achilles tendon alone.

Ridiculous and stupid level of homerism.

You need to let the hate for Dino go, some of you are getting embarrassing about it.

EK hadn’t hit a point per game since he was with the Senators. He hovered closer to .5 p/g in his time with SJ to that point. At 11.5 per season, he was basically untraceable. Then SJ put all the offence through him and he scored 100 points, easily his highest total by far in his career. SJ we’re able to trade that contract, and now Pittsburgh has an offence-only defenceman on pace for less than 60 points at $10M per.

Seems like a great move if we want to get rid of Huberdeau. Nothing homerish about it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

This could be a few things combined. It's a good pressure move to simply walk away from the table, so if negotiations have been tough to get across the goal line, maybe Conroy's just saying "fine". Also, maybe he is thinking (mainly about Lindholm I bet, but also maybe Hanifin) that the talks are a distraction and that's why their play has been so unfocused and plodding. Lindholm should be having a great season in a contract year, but he's not. Conroy may be saying "you want $9M from me or someone else - prove it).

You're doing it wrong

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You need to let the hate for Dino go, some of you are getting embarrassing about it.

EK hadn’t hit a point per game since he was with the Senators. He hovered closer to .5 p/g in his time with SJ to that point. At 11.5 per season, he was basically untraceable. Then SJ put all the offence through him and he scored 100 points, easily his highest total by far in his career. SJ we’re able to trade that contract, and now Pittsburgh has an offence-only defenceman on pace for less than 60 points at $10M per.

Seems like a great move if we want to get rid of Huberdeau. Nothing homerish about it.

With the possible side effect that more wins result. Making a decision to move Huberdeau harder, but also upping his value if they do.

[Monahammer]

You guys are insane if you think that pre flames Huberdeau and pre sharks Karlsson have similar profiles. They don't at all. One is a very good offensive player. One is potentially the best goal scoring dman of all time, and one of the better at puck movement.

Their profiles on team 2 aren't even that comparable. The first season in SJ EK was almost PPG- 45 in 53, another injury really hampered him. Then Covid shortened he was OK but the sharks really collapsed as a squad around him. 20-21 was really bad, comparable to last season's Huby. But really it's injuries and COVID you can trace it to.

I don't see how you can compare these players. EK produces as much or more than Huberdeau as a defenseman. Yeah the contract was massive but teams were STILL bidding for it. Edmonton was trying hard to land him for example. There's no one in the league that is looking at huberdeau.

and for the last time, no one hates anyone. We don't know each other enough to hate eachother. Except for yoho, I know and hate him.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

With the possible side effect that more wins result. Making a decision to move Huberdeau harder, but also upping his value if they do.

I doubt completely catering to Huberdeau is going to result in more wins. Might make him look like an okay player but that deal is unmovable regardless in my opinion. An absolute brilliant move by Zito

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

rant

lol you are thinking way too deeply about this. Play some river hockey and if Huberdeau gets back to a PPG pace and maybe a GM is dumb enough to bite.


You are wrong about Karlsson having value before his Norris season. He regularly made the worst contracts in the league lists. Athletic had him as #7 going into last season.