Huberdeau's agent: "Negativity sucks the joy right out of players"

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

At very least, Walsh’s cryptic tweet is the perfect nugget for those with confirmation bias who feel like going on a rant about Darryl Sutter (or, less commonly, Huberdeau).

The picture isn’t really clear at all. There is obviously an issue, and maybe it is that the team has quit on Sutter, but the overwhelming number of fantasies people have dreamt up about what it’s like in the room and what everyone they watch play hockey on TV is thinking and feeling has been pretty funny. When it gets to the point where people are saying that any time a team has been good under Sutter it has been to spite Sutter, or reframing the Gaudreau situation as Sutter’s fault, that’s just people believing what they want to believe. And Walsh’s tweet has inspired a lot of that.

People who blame Darryl for Johnny and Tkachuk leaving are definitely dumb. But it seems pretty obvious that Tkachuk didn't like Darryl all that much. Every time he's been asked about Darryl since the trade he gets quiet and doesn't want to go into how he was as a coach all that much. Johnny has said good things about Darryl though

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

Kadri mentioned a couple of times that there is team issues on the Frankly broadcast the other day. He never got into details but he mentioned it a few times when asked whats wrong with the Flames.

Sounds like the boys are just not playing a team game and it is really showing all their frustrations. Unfortunately Sutter only has a short life on any team he coaches and because of his style his time runs out pretty quick.

People keep bringing up the shelf life like it is a thing... He has only been fired twice out of 4 times. That's pretty unusual. In the 2 jobs he was fired, he made it to 6 seasons. When was the last time we had a 6 season coach?

Also, as I recall the SJS players were pretty gutted he got fired. He brought that team to respectability and the 04 handshakes were all teary and huggy. Maybe if huberdeau gets going he can get a teary hug from Sutter after his new team beats us in the playoffs. There's still hope.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

At very least, Walsh’s cryptic tweet is the perfect nugget for those with confirmation bias who feel like going on a rant about Darryl Sutter (or, less commonly, Huberdeau).

The picture isn’t really clear at all. There is obviously an issue, and maybe it is that the team has quit on Sutter, but the overwhelming number of fantasies people have dreamt up about what it’s like in the room and what everyone they watch play hockey on TV is thinking and feeling has been pretty funny. When it gets to the point where people are saying that any time a team has been good under Sutter it has been to spite Sutter, or reframing the Gaudreau situation as Sutter’s fault, that’s just people believing what they want to believe. And Walsh’s tweet has inspired a lot of that.

There is a lot of folklore to go around. Counting this season, Darryl’s teams have won more games than they lost in only 2 of the last 6 seasons. Outside of last year it is not like he had a long recent history of teams that were winning teams. Last years team did marginally better than the Peters team, so it is not like it was a complete anomaly related only to Darryl.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by AC

Guess it's time to replace the authoritarian coach who has lost the room with a fun, player's coach who we realize in 3 years can't get this group to commit to a 2 way game and obviously need to replace him with another short-lived authoritarian coach...

The circle of mediocrity continues.

Bring back Hartley!

[Major Major]

Just checked. Shelf life Darryl who's coached in 6 seasons the only 2 times he's ever been relieved from head coaching duties would have been the longest tenured coach in flames history in either occasion.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I mean, Scotty Bowman won a lot of cups too, but I'm not sure he'd be great as a coach today.

Its been almost 10 years since Sutter won. Things have changed.

The Kings had a captain to lead the team as well.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The nice thing about being a Flames fan is that the problem is always the coach. Even after complaining for years about not being able to get good coaches, we get a Stanley Cup and Jack Adam’s winning coach and… yup, still the coach.

It’s nice always having that in our pocket.

Mike Keenan? It was the coach, too mean!
Brent Sutter? The coach, too slow!
Bob Hartley? The coach, too mean!
Glen Gulutzan? The coach, too nice and inexperienced!
Bill Peters? The coach, too mean! (and racist, legit reason)
Geoff Ward? Too nice and inexperienced!
Darryl Sutter? Too mean!

One day we’ll get the absolute perfect coach for everybody. We just need to try another 5-10 minimum before we find him (or her by that point).

I'm not actually sure I want to see Sutter fired, I would like to see some adjustments to a defensive structure that hasnt worked with these dmen / goalies since the Oilers series though.

But Is this really that uncommon though? I think this is actually generally how coaching changes in the NHL work.

Unless you are Cooper, Bednar, or Sullivan that tends to be the case.

Flames have had 3 coaching staffs since 2016. (I count Ward/Peters as one staff to be honest - there were extenuating circumstances there)

Vegas has had 3 coaches in the same time. Trotz got to 2 conference finals with the NYI and he got fired - 3 coaches since 2017.

Generally 2-3 years is the norm for an NHL coach in the current era.

Honestly though I wouldnt be making this decision on Huberdeau's feelings or his agents comments. Talk to the guys in the room that have been here all three seasons: Lindholm, Tanev, Backlund

That is the leadership group who would be the ones with best pulse on the team IMO.

[TheScorpion]

Don't NHL teams have like 90% roster turnover every five years, too? And it makes sense ... when things clearly aren't working, you make a change. Or, at least, you should.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by rooster

STFU!!! Huby never went to his agent and said "hey can u fight this battle for me".

You know this how? I have no idea what Walsh's client's arrangements are with his tweets, but if I'm one of his clients, I am sure as hell sitting down with him and saying don't tweet about my situation unless I ok it. He's destroyed relationships, got players traded, etc. and has had the rep for a long time. It simply must be a conversation you have with that agent.

[Saqe]

Not a good look, Huberdeau should shut up and play better. He's the main reason with Markstrom that the team is struggling right now. 84 million dollars!

One thing I've always appreciated about Bobrovsky is even though he is #### he has always owned his play and never pointed fingers at anyone else. He was paid to be a superstar regardless of what's around him.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Don't NHL teams have like 90% roster turnover every five years, too? And it makes sense ... when things clearly aren't working, you make a change. Or, at least, you should.

This team has 5 players here from 18-19.

Lindholm
Backlund
Mangiapane
Hanifin
Andersson

That was the first season in Calgary for Lindholm and Hanifin. Mangiapane and Andersson were rookies.

So yeah seems about right.

Even just going back to Sutter's first season in 20-21.

Lindholm, Backlund, Dube, Mangiapane, Markstrom, Tanev, Andersson, Hanifin, Lucic, Stone

So thats 10/23 right there in terms of roster turnover.

[Strange Brew]

Better give these guys a coach they like, they deserve it.

[Toonage]

At least one that doesn't take every opportunity to tell the media that none of them are stars.

[Major Major]

I'd bring in Babcock just to mess with them.

[bax]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I'm not actually sure I want to see Sutter fired, I would like to see some adjustments to a defensive structure that hasnt worked with these dmen / goalies since the Oilers series though.

But Is this really that uncommon though? I think this is actually generally how coaching changes in the NHL work.

Unless you are Cooper, Bednar, or Sullivan that tends to be the case.

Flames have had 3 coaching staffs since 2016. (I count Ward/Peters as one staff to be honest - there were extenuating circumstances there)

Vegas has had 3 coaches in the same time. Trotz got to 2 conference finals with the NYI and he got fired - 3 coaches since 2017.

Generally 2-3 years is the norm for an NHL coach in the current era.

Honestly though I wouldnt be making this decision on Huberdeau's feelings or his agents comments. Talk to the guys in the room that have been here all three seasons: Lindholm, Tanev, Backlund

That is the leadership group who would be the ones with best pulse on the team IMO.

Really solid post.

I’m not on the fire Sutter bandwagon either (not yet, anyways), but it’s become abundantly clear that something is wrong here. I have no idea what it is or how to fix it, but it sure sets up and interesting trade deadline and offseason.

[dcbc]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Love it, let’s get messy. At least messy’s interesting because Lord knows the product on the ice sure isn’t.

As a Canuck fan, I can vouch for this. As much as a horrible tire fire of a circus as it has been, it's sure been super entertaining.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

But Is this really that uncommon though? I think this is actually generally how coaching changes in the NHL work.

Unless you are Cooper, Bednar, or Sullivan that tends to be the case.

Flames have had 3 coaching staffs since 2016. (I count Ward/Peters as one staff to be honest - there were extenuating circumstances there)

Vegas has had 3 coaches in the same time. Trotz got to 2 conference finals with the NYI and he got fired - 3 coaches since 2017.

Generally 2-3 years is the norm for an NHL coach in the current era.

Honestly though I wouldnt be making this decision on Huberdeau's feelings or his agents comments. Talk to the guys in the room that have been here all three seasons: Lindholm, Tanev, Backlund

That is the leadership group who would be the ones with best pulse on the team IMO.

Vegas doesn’t seem like a great example, haven’t they built a quick reputation for treating people like garbage and cranking through coaches?

The guys you mentioned are one example, but there’s also guys who have been with their teams for 4-5 years not mentioned, and guys like Maurice and Quenneville who spent good stretches with previous teams recently. I don’t know that 2 years is close to the average or normal, it sure doesn’t seem like it. And as far as I know, the Flames since 98 have turned through more coaches than almost any other team (I think they’re at 15 over 25 years or something)? Either way, we average one coach less than every 2 years over both the last 10 and 20 years.

I think you also have to count Ward and Peters separately. Ward took over, but then he was also hired on a permanent basis when another coach could have been selected and fired after a year of work.

None of this to say this is or isn’t on Sutter, but when we turn on a coach (which is more often than most teams) we turn on them hard.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by rooster

STFU!!! Huby never went to his agent and said "hey can u fight this battle for me".

How about we not tell people to STFU because they have a different opinion than you. Let's not degrade the discourse.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Unless you are Cooper, Bednar, or Sullivan that tends to be the case.

So I was curious about this and count up how many different head coaches each team has had since the 2012-2013 season. The results are:

- 8: Florida
- 7: Buffalo, Edmonton, Philadelphia
- 6: Vancouver
- 5: Calgary, Dallas, Ottawa
- 4: Anaheim, Chicago, LA, Minnesota, Montreal, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, San Jose, Toronto, Washington
- 3: Arizona, Boston, Carolina, Colorado, Columbus, Detroit, Nashville, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Vegas (6 seasons), Winnipeg
- 1: Seattle (2 seasons)

(Note - I counted interim coaches who weren't kept on after their interim role)

The Flames are on the high side of normal, but you could certainly argue it's an unusual case because of Peters. Either way, I don't think the Flames are extremely unusual for the shelf life of their coaches. The true outliers to me were the teams at 7-8: Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida, and Philadelphia.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Vegas doesn’t seem like a great example, haven’t they built a quick reputation for treating people like garbage and cranking through coaches?

The guys you mentioned are one example, but there’s also guys who have been with their teams for 4-5 years not mentioned, and guys like Maurice and Quenneville who spent good stretches with previous teams recently. I don’t know that 2 years is close to the average or normal, it sure doesn’t seem like it. And as far as I know, the Flames since 98 have turned through more coaches than almost any other team (I think they’re at 15 over 25 years or something)? Either way, we average one coach less than every 2 years over both the last 10 and 20 years.

I think you also have to count Ward and Peters separately. Ward took over, but then he was also hired on a permanent basis when another coach could have been selected and fired after a year of work.

None of this to say this is or isn’t on Sutter, but when we turn on a coach (which is more often than most teams) we turn on them hard.

This is a bit outdated but

NHL head coaches have one of the highest turnover rates in major sports; their average tenure is currently 2.4 years. That’s slightly more than the 2.3 year average in the NBA, where there was a record number of coaching changes last offseason, but far short of the NFL’s 3.6 years and MLB’s 3.8.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...LB's%203.8.