The ongoing X and Elon Musk Transgressions Thread

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

the lefts overreaction to Musk is embarrassing.

How exactly do you know who is on ‘the left’? Is it easy to distinguish left vs center for you? Honest question.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think we are at the point that people who bet against Musk's companies are coming out on the loosing side DESPITE the fact that he overpromises on lots of things.

But hey, keep on keeping on. Your silly ranting here is quite amusing to read.

At the present time Musk is immune to the consequences of under delivering but that won't last forever. When other automakers keep delaying new models it negatively affects their stock but the Cybertruck is delayed again until 2023 and good chance it doesn't make that year. Their FSD will seemingly never get finished. At the end of the day Tesla is just another automobile manufacturer and there will be a day when it's no longer a bull stock. Heck this entire Twitter thing to me is an indication that Musk is getting a little bored with auto manufacturing.

[KTrain]

This thread has become almost as intolerable as Twitter.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

At the end of the day Tesla is just another automobile manufacturer and there will be a day when it's no longer a bull stock.

This speaks for itself and is before Tesla makes any money off of Berlin and Texas.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

How exactly do you know who is on ‘the left’? Is it easy to distinguish left vs center for you? Honest question.

Can you be more specific? Like who?

I guess I would counter you question with the same.. do you NOT find it incredibly easy to know if someone is left or right if you hear some of their opinions on things like Musk and gay rights or gun laws?

edit2: Let me further sharpen that up. If you put a gun to my head and asked what the political leaning of a person was, and, I could ask three questions, I'd feel pretty safe about surviving. Ask them how they feel about gay marriage, Donald Trump, and COVId vaccines. Is it fool proof? No but nothing really is.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by zamler

This speaks for itself and is before Tesla makes any money off of Berlin and Texas.

But does that justify the share price? GM and Ford are both around 55 billion market cap. Tesla is 911 billion. That's 16.5x higher. Is that reasonable? Room for growth, or is it over priced?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But does that justify the share price? GM and Ford are both around 55 billion market cap. Tesla is 911 billion. That's 16.5x higher. Is that reasonable? Room for growth, or is it over priced?

I think TSLA would have gone past $1500 already if the macro environment was not dragging everything down.

I'm not hopeful but I'll ask anyway, what do you think is a fair price for TSLA right now, and in 3 years.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by zamler

I think TSLA would have gone past $1500 already if the macro environment was not dragging everything down.

I'm not hopeful but I'll ask anyway, what do you think is a fair price for TSLA right now, and in 3 years.

I honestly don't have a clue, there are plenty of risks for them. The macro environment is affecting competitors as well as Tesla. I think their is a built in over value of 20% or so of investors believing everything Elon says is coming/happening without evaluating rationally. But they do have an efficient manufacturing setup. Not having pesky unions really helps them as well. I just think when you compare their value to the rest of the automotive market, it's hard to say it isn't over-valued in some way.

[PeteMoss]

Tesla's stock performance has nothing to do with Twitter.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Can you be more specific? Like who?

I guess I would counter you question with the same.. do you NOT find it incredibly easy to know if someone is left or right if you hear some of their opinions on things like Musk and gay rights or gun laws?

edit2: Let me further sharpen that up. If you put a gun to my head and asked what the political leaning of a person was, and, I could ask three questions, I'd feel pretty safe about surviving. Ask them how they feel about gay marriage, Donald Trump, and COVId vaccines. Is it fool proof? No but nothing really is.

I'm for gay marriage.

Trump is a dill hole.

I'm triple vaxxed.

Boom, the trigger got pulled.

Almost as if the never ending desire to simplify people down to three talking points is a flawed way to view the world, or even on a smaller scale - an incorrect way to asses someone's political leanings.

[opendoor]

Tesla's P/E is insanely high (as most growth stocks are), but their earnings are growing at such a fast rate that it really wouldn't take too much growth to knock it back down to a more reasonable level. So even at their current share price, there actually isn't an insane amount of growth priced in. If their net income grew by 50% a year during their growth phase, they'd be a $2T company at a P/E of 50 (basically what Amazon was before this recent drop) in 3-4 years.

At the same time, it doesn't take much of a plateau in earnings for a growth stock to change things. Amazon in 2017-18 had a similar market cap and growth to Tesla now and was seeing huge gains. But now, despite their earnings being 300% what they were in 2018, their share price is only up about 25% since then.

I think most of the hype around Tesla with regards to future technologies is misguided (their FSD is laughable at this point) and kind of distracts from the fact that they seem to be able to make a ton of money on their cars. I don't see any reason that they can't occupy a similar space as Apple within the automotive world. Most phones and computers that people use aren't made by Apple, but they make way more money on their devices than their competitors and as a result are the most valuable company in the world and they keep making more and more money.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'm for gay marriage.

Trump is a dill hole.

I'm triple vaxxed.

Boom, the trigger got pulled.

Almost as if the never ending desire to simplify people down to three talking points is a flawed way to view the world, or even on a smaller scale - an incorrect way to asses someone's political leanings.

Weird flex to brag about how you don't understand probabilities

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Weird flex to brag about how you don't understand probabilities

You spoke of feeling safe based on asking three questions that you believe aligns with the views of conservatives.

I, an individual, answered your three questions and it didn't go your way.

I believe your view of conservatives has been pulled to an extreme (based on the three questions you chose), and I believe it's an incorrect view.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

You spoke of feeling safe based on asking three questions that you believe aligns with the views of conservatives.

I, an individual, answered your three questions and it didn't go your way.

I believe your view of conservatives has been pulled to an extreme (based on the three questions you chose), and I believe it's an incorrect view.

I literally wrote in that post its not fool proof. I dunno what you want man. Those are 3 really solid questions to ask people to determine their political leanings. This is backed by all sorts of surveys and polling, feel free to google it. Not that any reasonable person would need to. These aren't riddles like whats your favourite tree and trying to divine from the answer.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

... Let me further sharpen that up. If you put a gun to my head and asked what the political leaning of a person was, and, I could ask three questions, I'd feel pretty safe about surviving. Ask them how they feel about gay marriage, Donald Trump, and COVId vaccines. Is it fool proof? No but nothing really is.

These three questions are as far from a good test as you can possibly get. Most people leaning to the extremities of the political spectrum (both, left and right) support strong-hand dictatorships, are disgusted by LGBT rights and distrust their government's lead on vaccinations mandate.

Defining political leaning has more to do with attitude towards allowable vs. mandated Governmental involvement into people's lives and towards fiscal policy. Centrists want to balance responsible fiscal policy with responsible social support systems. Those left of center put more emphasis on the latter (thus, increasing Governmental involvement); right of center put more emphasis on the former (thus, reducing such involvement). Religious and ideological zealots are never near the center; they are always at the extremities of the spectrum.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I honestly don't have a clue, there are plenty of risks for them.

Risk factor is very low now IMO, the danger is not with Tesla but legacy auto they are in deep trouble they are going to end up with billions in stranded assets.

The macro environment is affecting competitors as well as Tesla. I think their is a built in over value of 20% or so of investors believing everything Elon says is coming/happening without evaluating rationally.

So you do know, you think Tesla should be around $700/share. I follow Tesla closely and there is vastly more negative coverage than positive although that is slowly changing as the short sellers fall away. Bill Gates has (or maybe had at this point) a giant short position in TSLA he grudgingly admitted he wished he was long instead. A lot of smart people got it wrong and they did because they used emotion instead of logic.

But they do have an efficient manufacturing setup. Not having pesky unions really helps them as well. I just think when you compare their value to the rest of the automotive market, it's hard to say it isn't over-valued in some way.

If this is true then eventually the market will sort it out, is that a bet you're willing to make? Tesla's P/E ratio is certainly out of whack but consider:
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/c...tesla/pe-ratio
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/c...mazon/pe-ratio

To the people shrieking that Elon is the devil and going to destroy democracy etc.

Why Elon Musk has Jack Dorsey's 'trust' to run Twitter—a look back at their friendship

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

These three questions are as far from a good test as you can possibly get. Most people leaning to the extremities of the political spectrum (both, left and right) support strong-hand dictatorships, are disgusted by LGBT rights and distrust their government's lead on vaccinations mandate.

Defining political leaning has more to do with attitude towards allowable vs. mandated Governmental involvement into people's lives and towards fiscal policy. Centrists want to balance responsible fiscal policy with responsible social support systems. Those left of center put more emphasis on the latter (thus, increasing Governmental involvement); right of center put more emphasis on the former (thus, reducing such involvement). Religious and ideological zealots are never near the center; they are always at the extremities of the spectrum.

People on the extreme left love Trump? Haha ok. This thread has jumped the shark.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

People on the extreme left love Trump? Haha ok. This thread has jumped the shark.

Take a deep breath and don't try to become militant over this. It is not a clear cut issue.

Think of Florida seniors: they are the strongest and staunchest advocates for more social supports from all levels of government. They were the first to vaccinate. They supported Trump en-masse and they don't care much about LGBT. Are they right or left?

Think of Russia: this is a 100% Government-controlled country lead by country-first ideology enforced by secret service. They love Trump. They force people to vaccinate. They hate LGBT. Right or left?

Just relax. This is a very complicated and debatable subject.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Take a deep breath and don't try to become militant over this. It is not a clear cut issue.

Think of Florida seniors: they are the strongest and staunchest advocates for more social supports from all levels of government. They were the first to vaccinate. They supported Trump en-masse and they don't care much about LGBT. Are they right or left?

Think of Russia: this is a 100% Government-controlled country lead by country-first ideology enforced by secret service. They love Trump. They force people to vaccinate. They hate LGBT. Right or left?

Just relax. This is a very complicated and debatable subject.

I am very relaxed.

[Table 5]

I too was pretty skeptical during the rise of Teslas stock price, but hey, clearly it was a good call by those who made it. After the pretty astronomical growth in price, I'm not sure I'd be plowing new money into it, but hey, no risk no reward!

Teslas biggest roadblock to scaling growth might be sourcing all the various battery metals they will need, especially in a tightening marketing with a lot more competition, both in the auto industry and other sectors. The world will really need to ramp up their resource extraction over the next few decades to meet this demand...which will be tough if environmental standards matter.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1512505545416224783

In the long run, Tesla investors might have been better served if Elon invested $50B into the resource sector, as opposed to Twitter.