James Webb Space Telescope

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by photon

It's still a telescope, the universe is still the universe, it's not like you're going to see something radically different.. it's like going from a Polaroid to a Hasselblad, not a Polaroid to a 3D scanner.

I mean the detail difference between these two images is incredible:


https://i.imgur.com/A9PlnZg.jpeg

Glad you guys are happy with it. I would use this photo comparison to prove my point and you're using it to prove yours.

But for real, I'll STFU. This thread will be way better with people appreciating what we're getting.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Okay, well I think we're on the same page if you're acknowledging what we've seen so far isn't very exciting. Hopefully cooler stuff comes out with time.

I guarantee if I had posted that first pic here without context it was a new photo from the latest and greatest telescope people would have scrolled on by oblivious to the fact it was the best photo of the distant universe so far since it is way too similar to a million photos we've all seen before.

Without context??? Well, of course. The context is a large part in what makes the image what it is.

If the context of Hubble’s deep field was “this is it, nothing is passed what we see”, then Webbs deep field would be visually mind blowing. But we knew there was more, we were taught in schools there was more.

If your argument is that you’re more impressed by fictional drawings or graphics than by reality then I guess that’s the end of the debate. But at this point it feels like you’re just poking around expressing how unimpressed you are with the topic of the thread. So, you can avoid it, or be open minded to the context and maybe be impressed.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I would use this photo comparison to prove my point and you're using it to prove yours.

Prove what point, that your expectations are unreasonable and aren't grounded in reality?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by photon

Prove what point, that your expectations are unreasonable and aren't grounded in reality?

Can't believe I'm taking Sliver's side, but I see his point (and consider it a failing of society). A lot of people are conditioned on 'power/expectation creep'. Sliver's seen a picture of star. Now he wants to see a star with some buildings on it. Then he wants to see the star with some buildings on it with some aliens beside them.

'Another' picture of the 'just the same star, but a better picture' is 'boring' to him. That it's a better picture, and what it represents to have gotten that better picture is irrelevant, because he doesn't want a picture of a star anymore, he only wants a picture of a star with buildings or something 'even better'.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by photon

Prove what point, that your expectations are unreasonable and aren't grounded in reality?

I'm being victim blamed! I'm the victim of Big Science setting my expectations super high on what to expect here. It's like looking at a hubble image where they twiddled the knob a little to the right to get a crisper image.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by photon

Prove what point, that your expectations are unreasonable and aren't grounded in reality?

I think the point is that if you told people those images were the same thing in two different colours, not different levels of detail, they would believe you.

[Scroopy Noopers]

[Scroopy Noopers]

The universe is 13.7 billion years old.

[Huntingwhale]

Some people will appreciate these photos, some will be let down because their expectation were too high. Given the time, money, man power, engineering and straight up stress of putting this thing in orbit in L2, then getting it to unfold, calibrate and send us photos back, I can certainly appreciate some of the people who worked on this project and will utilize the data sent back being moved to tears.

Most people who sit from the comfort of their computer desks might not feel so moved because to them it's just an image on the screen and they were expecting something a bit more awe-inspiring (whatever that may be). Personally I felt moved as I zoomed in on the first deep field image and began to realize just how vast this universe is. My stupid little brain simply doesn't have the capacity to fully understand what I was seeing, nor the sheer scale. Tried explaining to my wife why it was so moving but we both agreed that as humans our brains simply don't have the CPU to fully process it.

Some people will be moved by certain forms of art such as paintings or music, some won't. We're all wired differently. But that doesn't change the fact that the JWST is a monumental scientific instrument that WILL change how we view the universe. FWIW I still find the original Hubble deep field image to the single most important image in history. Most certainly, JWST will challenge that photo at some point. We just don't know what it is yet.

Some people can find it boring, but I don't really give a #### what they think. I've waited a loooooong time for this thing to get built, get sent up and to send back data. Glad it's finally doing it's job!

[photon]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Can't believe I'm taking Sliver's side, but I see his point (and consider it a failing of society).

Yup for sure, hence the winky. We're all conditioned for better faster.. Newspapers to TV to YouTube to TikTok.. if I'm not entertained in 30 seconds or 280 characters I'm out.

I mean we SHOULD have learned by now that progress looks like this:



not



We went from first flight to moon landing.. then from moon landing to.. well we haven't even been back to the moon. We can, but it wouldn't be much different than the first time.

The further you progress the harder the next step of progression is.

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm being victim blamed! I'm the victim of Big Science setting my expectations super high on what to expect here. It's like looking at a hubble image where they twiddled the knob a little to the right to get a crisper image.

Even just a crisper image can result in significant discoveries.. open the biggest version of that image and the detail in the dust is incredible, they'll be able to do all kinds of analysis on the features in the dust to learn things we simply couldn't learn before.

So I do get what you are saying, and the payoff for most people is going to be just what you say.. nicer pictures. The real payoff will be the science that we can do on those pictures with data that didn't exist before.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by photon

So I do get what you are saying, and the payoff for most people is going to be just what you say.. nicer pictures. The real payoff will be the science that we can do on those pictures with data that didn't exist before.

Yes, but where I'm befuddled is how all the average joes are getting themselves all worked up about this. Frankly, they're just not that exciting unless maybe you haven't ever seen pictures of space before. It's a little sharper, but that's the extent of it.

For scientists...awesome. Let's hear about what these images help you learn and discover. That'll be of interest to me. But just the pictures? Seen 'em.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yes, but where I'm befuddled is how all the average joes are getting themselves all worked up about this. Frankly, they're just not that exciting unless maybe you haven't ever seen pictures of space before. It's a little sharper, but that's the extent of it.

For scientists...awesome. Let's hear about what these images help you learn and discover. That'll be of interest to me. But just the pictures? Seen 'em.

I agree. However I do think it could get pretty interesting to see the close stuff and a magnified granularity. Like take a picture of Jupiter or Neptune or something, could be pretty cool.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I agree. However I do think it could get pretty interesting to see the close stuff and a magnified granularity. Like take a picture of Jupiter or Neptune or something, could be pretty cool.

Yeah, probably won't work due to focal length or something, but I completely agree the close stuff is actually cool.

I went to some observatory out by Priddis a few years ago to look through giant telescopes. Holy crap was that a let down. They'd be like, you see that star with your naked eye? I'm like, yeah. Okay, now look at it through this million dollar telescope! Okay, it's a blurry blotch of light. What - the - fata - is interesting about that?

Then there was guy on the lawn with binoculars set up on a tripod pointed at the moon. That was fascinating.

[Ozy_Flame]

I think it's perfectly fine to have an opinion on the images we're seeing that isn't jaw-dropping amazement. I mean, the Carina Nebula photo from 2007 was a fantastic photo on its own, and now it's enhanced. Which is awesome, but in an age where our TV's and monitors get higher definition, should we really be surprised at clearer images of the same things?

I am going to be more surprised and awe-inspired when I see up-close star systems in photos from Webb. I love what is produced now, but can't wait to see what comes down the line that's even better. I also equally love the infrared capture that lets us know even more about the chemical composition of distant systems. That's really excellent stuff.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, probably won't work due to focal length or something, but I completely agree the close stuff is actually cool.

I went to some observatory out by Priddis a few years ago to look through giant telescopes. Holy crap was that a let down. They'd be like, you see that star with your naked eye? I'm like, yeah. Okay, now look at it through this million dollar telescope! Okay, it's a blurry blotch of light. What - the - fata - is interesting about that?

Then there was guy on the lawn with binoculars set up on a tripod pointed at the moon. That was fascinating.

They will be imaging planets in our solar system:


https://webbtelescope.org/contents/a...r-solar-system

[You Need a Thneed]

For the scientists, these images are just the start of all the raw data that is coming in.

The discoveries are going to come from collecting lots and lots of raw data, not just from a couple images over a few days.

The scientists are the ones that know what they are looking for out of the raw data.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yes, but where I'm befuddled is how all the average joes are getting themselves all worked up about this. Frankly, they're just not that exciting unless maybe you haven't ever seen pictures of space before. It's a little sharper, but that's the extent of it.

For scientists...awesome. Let's hear about what these images help you learn and discover. That'll be of interest to me. But just the pictures? Seen 'em.

Just confirms what we already knew - you're no average Joe!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The scientists are the ones that know what they are looking for out of the raw data.

Well… I would sure hope so!

[KootenayFlamesFan]

These pictures and what they represent just blow my mind. I absolutely love it. Lucky to be alive to see stuff like this.

[photon]

Images from the JWST of planets in our solar system will be equally underwhelming in terms of how they look. A picture hundreds of millions of km away is always going to be worse than a picture with a close up probe.

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yes, but where I'm befuddled is how all the average joes are getting themselves all worked up about this. Frankly, they're just not that exciting unless maybe you haven't ever seen pictures of space before. It's a little sharper, but that's the extent of it.

It's not a "little" sharper, it's orders of magnitudes sharper with details that simply weren't visible.

There's little difference between a picture of the mountains from Calgary and from Banff, it's just a little sharper...

Plus knowing about something is sometimes a factor in appreciating it. One person can listen to some music and say "that's nice" while another can cry over it because they know music and know how much talent and hard work it took to play and only 10 people on earth can do it.

I find the pictures great, I see an incredible increase in detail which means an increase in data and what we'll be able to learn.

If other people enjoying something you don't befuddles you, well join the club because there's tons of things people do and enjoy that I can't comprehend.