[News] Jack Eichel Surgery And Comeback Thread

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Once Eichel is ready to play, Vegas will use the LTIR without a doubt (IMO) for the remainder of the season, then we'll see what's what for game 1 of the playoffs.

But don't be the least bit surprised when ALL their key players are back, healthy and raring to go when the puck drops for round 1, game 1.

McPhee even said right after the trade that they weren't worried about cap space because they didn't expect that the team would be fully healthy by the time Eichel comes back.

People talk like this tactic is a crazy conspiracy theory and so difficult to engineer, but it's really not. It's an exploit that Tampa revealed last season and under the right circumstances can be replicated quite easily depending one how resolved the league is police it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

McPhee even said right after the trade that they weren't worried about cap space because they didn't expect that the team would be fully healthy by the time Eichel comes back.

People talk like this tactic is a crazy conspiracy theory and so difficult to engineer, but it's really not. It's an exploit that Tampa revealed last season and under the right circumstances can be replicated quite easily depending one how resolved the league is police it.

Totally agree, yet you have some here continuing to act like it's not really a thing.

If the Flames end up getting KO'ed by Vegas in the playoffs, with full, healthy, $91 million roster I might have to take a break from fandom for a while. It will be a bitter pill to swallow for this guy.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

McPhee even said right after the trade that they weren't worried about cap space because they didn't expect that the team would be fully healthy by the time Eichel comes back.

People talk like this tactic is a crazy conspiracy theory and so difficult to engineer, but it's really not. It's an exploit that Tampa revealed last season and under the right circumstances can be replicated quite easily depending one how resolved the league is police it.

Kucherov had an actual surgery at least...this would be next level cheating

although I don't think Vegas is as out of the woods as some of you think to play the rest of the season without Stone

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Kucherov had an actual surgery at least...this would be next level cheating

although I don't think Vegas is as out of the woods as some of you think to play the rest of the season without Stone

Agreed - Playing without Stone for 30 games, regardless of health, is a not—insignificant punishment for failing to be cap compliant.

There has to be some sort of games played requirement to qualify for a playoff roster moving forward.

You can’t just stash an extra star for a season.

How bout this - games played requirements to make a playoff roster. You can’t play 0 regular season games and be magically healthy for round 1.

Salary tier dictates the amount of time missed.

Ie if you make less than $3M, you can come back round 1.

$3-6M round 2.

$6.1-$10M round 3.

$10.1+ round 4.

If you were really so hurt that you couldn’t play regular season hockey for 6 months, you’ll probably need those extra three rounds of recovery anyway.

[dino7c]

In beer league you need to play 40% of the games to make playoffs...in the NHL its zero

There is some irony that Tampa actually brought it up at a GM meeting five years or so ago after Chicago exploited the rules and got zero support

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Kucherov had an actual surgery at least...this would be next level cheating

although I don't think Vegas is as out of the woods as some of you think to play the rest of the season without Stone

Kucherov was injured, but other players get the same kind of injury and play through it and have surgery in the offseason. I have no doubt that Kucherov opted for the surgery earlier to help Tampa stack the team for the playoffs. I also think they could have activated him earlier and chose not to in order to stay cap compliant. I'm not even mad. It's within the rules and they executed the plan perfectly. They were a good enough team that they didn't need to worry about the regular season. Who wouldn't do that for the team if they asked? I think fans overly romanticize being a player and just playing for the love of the game, but for these guys, it's a business and their business plan is to win a championship for their club. They will do whatever it takes.

Do I think it debases the game somewhat? Yeah, I do. Do I blame them for doing it? Not really. Should the NHL fix it for the future... most definitely.

[Pointman]

Pardon my idiocy, but was the point of applying the cap only for regular season? It was done intentionally so that teams can go over the cap for playoffs. Why?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The salary cap limit actually is in effect for the playoffs – technically: it says so in the CBA. But because of the screwy way the cap is calculated from day to day, it's impossible to go over the cap in the playoffs.

No, I'm serious. Each day of the regular season, a team is deemed to pay its players 1/186 (or whatever number) of their total cap hit for the year. You're compliant as long as you have enough of your $81.5 million (or whatever number) left to pay your players for the remaining days of the season. On the first day of the season, you are dividing your money available by 186. On the last day, you are dividing by 1.

The day the playoffs begin, all the salaries have already been paid and you are dividing by zero. Your only restriction is the list of playoff-eligible players in your system, whom you had to fit under the cap at some point during the year.

The geniuses who negotiated this system apparently never heard that dividing by zero is a no-no in basic arithmetic. That is where the system is screwed up.

What would make sense is a system where you have to be under the cap each and every day of the season and nothing is banked. If the cap is $81.5 million, then on any given day you can't have more than $81.5 million in cap hits on your active roster. No more BS about saving up so you can suddenly have millions of extra cap room at the trade deadline. And definitely, no more BS about having as much cap hit as you like in the playoffs because the formula contains a divide-by-zero error.

Of course, this would be fiercely resisted by everyone in the game. The media want the spectacle of big names moving at the deadline. GMs want the extra wiggle room to bury their mistakes. Capologists want to keep their jobs, which otherwise would be so simple that a chimp with a calculator could do them.

To quote one of my favourite lines from ‘Yes, Prime Minister’:

‘It's actually a very good idea. It simply mustn't happen.’

So the league essentially wants stacked teams in playoffs. Because in the end if the day this is what fans want. If NHL enforce cap in playoffs, more stars would watch playoffs from home. So Tampa and Vegas didn't cheat. They didn't even exploit a loophole. They did exactly what the league encourage them to do

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Kucherov was injured, but other players get the same kind of injury and play through it and have surgery in the offseason. I have no doubt that Kucherov opted for the surgery earlier to help Tampa stack the team for the playoffs. I also think they could have activated him earlier and chose not to in order to stay cap compliant. I'm not even mad. It's within the rules and they executed the plan perfectly. They were a good enough team that they didn't need to worry about the regular season. Who wouldn't do that for the team if they asked? I think fans overly romanticize being a player and just playing for the love of the game, but for these guys, it's a business and their business plan is to win a championship for their club. They will do whatever it takes.

Do I think it debases the game somewhat? Yeah, I do. Do I blame them for doing it? Not really. Should the NHL fix it for the future... most definitely.

Kucherov did have surgery in the offseason. Not that early but still off season. It’s almost certain they held him out for a couple weeks after his full recovery. But that is pretty minor IMO. And if TBL planned the whole thing they were pretty gutsy - playing an entire season without their best player, a league MVP. And they didn’t even sign some elite player with the cap room.

But if Stone stays out without surgery and for even longer, it will be more blatant, and I bet the rules get changes. Especially since it is to add a $10M player.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

In beer league you need to play 40% of the games to make playoffs...in the NHL its zero

There is some irony that Tampa actually brought it up at a GM meeting five years or so ago after Chicago exploited the rules and got zero support

This is the answer, and it doesn't even have to be that they play __% of games, just count against the cap for __% of days.

[metroneck]

Am I oversimplifying, or would the roster being dressed need to be cap compliant, per playoff game, solve the problem.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by metroneck

Am I oversimplifying, or would the roster being dressed need to be cap compliant, per playoff game, solve the problem.

Yeah, which is more generous than regular season since the latter includes black aces.

[OutOfTheCube]

Honestly watching these last couple months of Sabres hockey I’m not sure the Knights are better off with Eichel instead of Tuch and Krebs, let alone whatever other finagling they have to do to get cap compliant.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Honestly watching these last couple months of Sabres hockey I’m not sure the Knights are better off with Eichel instead of Tuch and Krebs, let alone whatever other finagling they have to do to get cap compliant.

Tuch is PPG I think?

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Tuch is PPG I think?

Over a PPG after today, and he’s an absolute stud. I haven’t seen a player as big and strong and fast as him on the Sabres in… ever? Just wins pick battles all over the place, scores nice goals, fantastic player.

Krebs has been no slouch either after a slower start, he has excellent vision and hockey IQ, makes a lot of slick little plays and passes. You can see the potential on the ice already translating, I think he’s gonna be good.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by metroneck

Am I oversimplifying, or would the roster being dressed need to be cap compliant, per playoff game, solve the problem.

There's common misunderstanding about how cap works, because the word "cap" is misleading. People naturally think of a cap as, well, cap - but it works more like a chest with money. At the beginning of a season each franchise is given a chest with the same amount of money. During the season teams pay their players with this money. As long, as money remaining in the chest is enough to pay players for the rest of the season, team is under a cap. Once the season is over, there's no more salary to pay to the players. Hence no matter who you have on the roster, you are "under the cap" (or rather have enough money in the chest to pay them).

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Pointman

There's common misunderstanding about how cap works, because the word "cap" is misleading. People naturally think of a cap as, well, cap - but it works more like a chest with money. At the beginning of a season each franchise is given a chest with the same amount of money. During the season teams pay their players with this money. As long, as money remaining in the chest is enough to pay players for the rest of the season, team is under a cap. Once the season is over, there's no more salary to pay to the players. Hence no matter who you have on the roster, you are "under the cap" (or rather have enough money in the chest to pay them).

Which, as I've said before, is precisely the problem. As soon as you hit the playoffs you are dividing by zero and the cap becomes meaningless – even though the CBA states that it technically still applies.

[PeteMoss]

Vegas aren't exactly sitting pretty in terms of playoff positioning that sitting out Stone isn't a risk for them.

Do they still probably make it without him - yes - because you'd need the Oilers or the Stars to pass them (along with the Ducks and Kings) but its not a sure thing.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I actually want to see a massive crash for Vegas more than I want to see Edmonton miss. I don't hate many teams, but Vegas is at the top of my list.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I actually want to see a massive crash for Vegas more than I want to see Edmonton miss. I don't hate many teams, but Vegas is at the top of my list.

A massive crash by VGK would be fun because of how consistently good they have been for several years now. Edmonton missing is just a given.

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