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Old 03-20-2021, 05:31 PM   #221
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But why not just build more heavy cruisers and more battleships? The battlecruiser was too heavy and too expensive to waste on hunter-killer missions that could be better performed by flotillas of smaller ships.
Heavy cruisers were a post-WWI concept that was effectively a response to the failure of the battlecruisers against heavy firepower. But while Jutland was the faiture of the battlecruiser design against heavy weapons, the Battle of the Falklands was a triumph for the concept against it's intended target and in it's intendend role; long rage armoured-cruiser killing missions.

The only two naval powers that really left the war with battlecruisers were Japan and the UK who basically tried to refit them as close to battleships as possible, or convert them to aircraft carriers. Between naval treaties and technology allowing faster battleships, they could start doing more of the hunter role without the risk of running into larger ships. Heavy cruisers came in to be the advanced patrol ship that could risk contact with the enemy before turning away if outmached, and occupy screening vessels in an escort role to bigger ships. But the interwar heavy cruisers didn't have much success during WWII either, with more role specific light cruisers being preferred (the Atlanta class was basically just a floating AA plaform), along with the destroyers and corvettes for escorts and dealing with subs.

The Kriegsmarine fulfilled the spirit of the battlecruiser role with the Deutchsland-class and Scharnhorst class ships. Fast enough to run from battleships, well gunned enough to take on any cruiser fleet. The Allies had to devote a lot of resoruces to deal with a small number of ships.
Eventually it all got replaced in supremacy by the aircraft carrier anyway. Battleships, battlecruisers, heavy cruisers were all too heavy and expensive to waste on hunter-killer missions that could be better performed by air wings instead.
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Old 03-20-2021, 05:49 PM   #222
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The problem is the admirals who foolishly used battlecruisers as part of their fleets' main line of battle. That should have been exclusively the role of battleships and their escorts, never battlecruisers.
The Imperial German Navy, knowing that it would be outnumbered in any war with Britain, did plan to have to their battlecruisers fight in the battle line. But they designed theirs to have near battleship-level armor at the sacrifice of more guns. So at Jutland, they acquitted themselves well, by out-dueling the British battlecruisers in the first phase of the battle, then despite getting hit hard by battleship shells when the Germany Navy got its T crossed, managed to mostly limp home.
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Old 03-20-2021, 08:54 PM   #223
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Does anyone have a good book recommendation on the dreadnought arms race?
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Old 03-20-2021, 10:06 PM   #224
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Dreadnought by Robert Massie to me is one of the best reads on it


I think I still have my copy.
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Old 03-20-2021, 10:09 PM   #225
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Does anyone have a good book recommendation on the dreadnought arms race?
Not a book, but if you enjoy naval history from the Dreadnought era up to the end of WWII there's an absolutely fantastic channel on YouTube that covers all sort of ships, battles, treaties, arms races, etc. from that period.

https://www.youtube.com/c/Drachinifel
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Old 03-21-2021, 03:42 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Does anyone have a good book recommendation on the dreadnought arms race?
The battleship forum here is a great source of information on all things battleships:


https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/wars...attleship-f63/


The most impressive thing for me regarding the race was just how fast, especially Britain, ships were being constructed. Between Dreadnought and Jutland, there were more than 30 battleships and 10 battlecruisers built by Britain, probably less time than it'll take to get the first Canadian Surface Combatant from being laid down to commissioning.
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Old 05-13-2021, 12:31 PM   #227
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I posted this in the entertainment forum but might be interesting here. My uncle served on the Duke of York during WW2 and participated in the battle with the Scharnhorst. As I was making this music video I found some cool simulation of the battle from a guy in Turkey. He recreated battle scenes from models. You can skip ahead a minute to the footage if you don’t care about the song.

https://www.cbc.ca/music/searchlight/#/vote/matt_burd

Edit: here is the battle video directly: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SJrfklAAYfU

Last edited by edslunch; 05-13-2021 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 11-19-2021, 07:38 AM   #228
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https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59307862

A-Sat missile test by Russia which was successful.
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Old 11-19-2021, 08:48 AM   #229
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I wanted to write something new up here, I was looking at the new SU-75 fighter/interceptor that Russia is marketing as a Raptor hunter with an export price tag of 30 million dollars per plane.



Now that my coaching season is over, I might get back into dropping the occasional article in here.
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Old 11-19-2021, 02:04 PM   #230
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some propaganda

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Old 11-19-2021, 02:16 PM   #231
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I watched this guy review the plane.. likely biased haha but was funny to see his reactions
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:40 PM   #232
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I just finished a great book on the Battle of Hue City. If I’m bored tomorrow, I may write something up on it.
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Old 01-20-2022, 11:52 PM   #233
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Somewhat relevant concerning recent news.



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Old 02-12-2022, 10:37 AM   #234
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Pretty cool tool.
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Old 10-04-2024, 10:37 PM   #235
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Weird Bump, but I've been working on a write up of the HMS Victory, and I'm almost done it, maybe this weekend.



One of the greatest ships ever built with a 200 year service history, and commanded by a who's who of the greatest naval figures every seen.


I've covered the construction of the ship, the technology, a day in the life for the crew. I've really enjoyed it but its long.
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Old 10-05-2024, 07:54 AM   #236
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I only got a brief glimpse of her as we left port on a ferry to France.
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Old 10-05-2024, 09:14 AM   #237
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I got to go on board the Victory in 2009. the atmosphere was thick with history.
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Old 10-05-2024, 05:23 PM   #238
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I watched this guy review the plane.. likely biased haha but was funny to see his reactions
F-22 killer? If it ever flies looking at it's design I doubt it would ever come close to mach 2.2 and with it's massive silly under belly intake it's doubtful it'll have much of a stealthy radar signature either.
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Old 10-05-2024, 07:22 PM   #239
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HMS Victory




She was the mightiest warship of her time, the flag ship of the greatest Navy in the world. She was the home to admirals from Agustus Kempel to Richard Howe to one of the greatest Naval Admirals in history in Horatio Nelson. She was laid down in 1759 and served for a incredible 246 years and is the worlds oldest naval ship still in service.

The HMS Victory has inspired tales and remains a key teaching point in Naval academies from the United States to Russia. A ship that was able to survive 8 major sea battles and came out operational.


Origins

In 1958 the Prime Minister of Britain ordered 12 additional ships for the British Navy including what was at the time called a First-Rate Ship. This was the designation for a ship capable of carrying over 800 men, and at least 100 guns and a tonnage of at least 2000 tons.

This first-rate ship was to become the Victory. Its architect was Sir Tomas Slade the Surveyor of the Navy, a dry dock was prepared at the Chatham Dockyard, which continued to build and refit ships until 1958 including the S-Class Submarines.

The Victory’s keep was laid down on July 23, 1759, and the name Victory was chosen in 1760. The name Victory was chosen because the 7-year war was going well for the British Empire with several key land victories including a victory at the Battle of the Plains of Abraham near Quebec City, and several key naval battles including a victory at Quiberon Bay. However, there were some doubts about the luck of naming a ship Victory, since the last ship named Victory had been lost in 1744 with all hands.

The Victory was primarily constructed from Oak with some elm, pine and fir. 6000 trees were used to build the ship and a team of 150 workers built the frame. The Hull was held in place by 6-foot-long copper bolts and treenails.

Naval construction for Ships of the Line was a long process, usually the frame is built, then the ship is covered and left to cure for months, but with the end of the 7-year war and a period of relative peace the Victory was left to cure for 3 years which probably made her a even hardier boat and explains the length of its active service.

Work was restarted in 1763 with covering and fittings, and she floated for the first time on May 7, 1765. At the time she cost 63,176 pounds which would be $16,725,912 Cdn today.

But the Victory got off to a less then famous start. First, it was discovered that the Victory was 9 ½ inches wider then the drydock gates, forcing the crew to shave off enough wood from the Gates to allow her to pass. Then it was discovered that there were severe construction and design flaws as the Victory listed to Starboard and was so heavy that her lower deck guns were only 4 feet about the waterline. The list was fixed by adjusting the ships ballast, the second issue, the ships heaviness was never fixed, instead an entry was added to the sailing instructions that the lower guns could not be used during rough weather.

In terms of propulsion, the victory was driven by roughly 6599 square yards if material spread out over 37 sails with an additional 23 sales in storage as replacements, these sales were spread over 3 masts and the front spar and had to be carefully managed so the ship wouldn’t tear itself apart in high winds. This design allowed the Victory to reach a speed of about 11 knots, and the manoeuvrability of a much smaller ship.

The victory had 3 decks, not including the hold at the bottom of the ship. A lower fun deck, middle gun deck and upper gun deck. On top there was the quarter deck and the poop deck.



By the time of Trafalgar, the Victory had an awesome array of fire power. On the lower gun deck there were 30 32-pound Bloomfield cannons, these were massive cannons capable of firing a 32-pound shot at 500 feet per second. The middle deck carried 28 long 24 pounders, the upper deck carried the shorter-range faster firing 12-pound guns, another 12 were placed on the Quarter deck. Basically, whatever the Victory could hit with a full barrage it would devastate.



The Men and Boys of Victory

From a Crew Compliment at Trafalgar the Victory sailed with 820 men and officers, the breakdown:

  • 9 officers.
  • 16 Non-Commissioned and Warrant Officers.
  • 18 Midshipmen.
  • 63 Petty Officers.
  • 43 Supply, Supernumeraries and Retinue.
  • 209 Able Seaman.
  • 180 Ordinary Seaman.
  • 90 Landsmen.
  • 31 boys.
  • A Marine Contingent of 4 officers, 7 Non-Commissioned Officers and 158 privates.



The oldest crewman was 67 and the youngest crewman was just 12-year-old. In the 17th century ships carried young teenagers with the rank of Boy. Usually, they came from a mix of poor to rich families and were enlisted to prepare for a life in the Royal Navy. Usually, the youngest were ranked as Boy 3rd class and they acted as officers’ servants. Boy Second Class learned normal seaman duties acting as apprentices. The Boy First class were usually young men from rich families that were training to become officers in the Navy. Most families were happy to give up their sons to the Navy especially the poor families as it promised them a life better then what they could have on land.

Life in the 18th Century Royal Navy and on Victory

Life wasn’t easy in the Royal Navy and would be considered harsh by today’s standards. But in the 1750’s Navy pay was attractive, even thought the pay would erode until the Navy reformed in the late 18 hundreds. Despite the harsh life, there were mostly volunteers in the Royal Navy, mainly because they were well fed by the nutritional standards of the times, and decently paid. When it came to experienced sailors though, the Royal Navy was competing with the Merchant Navy and Privateers, therefore the Navy used the practice of recruiting pressed men or involuntary volunteers. One of the other benefits for volunteers is that they received a signing bonus and volunteering protected sailors from creditors.

So, what was day to day life like on the Victory? According to Lord Nelson’s diary, the lowest paid Landman earned 1.2 pounds a month ($263.00 CDN Today) , with the highest wage being the Captain who earned 32.4 pounds per month ($8472.00 CDN Today).

There was no uniform for the Non-Commissioned men, their clothing consisted of whatever the Captain ordered, but it was usually a short jacket, Trousers and a head covering with the ships name on it. The officers had elaborate uniforms that reflected their rank and wealth.

In terms of berthing, Sailors and Pretty Officers slept in the lower decks, where there was very little light, and there was no privacy. Each man was issued a 6-foot hammock, and a First Lieutenant issued them hook spaces. Each Sailor had 14 inches of width to sleep in. A Petty Officer was given double the space. Hygiene was a major problem. Men didn’t get to bathe for months at a time and sea sickness was common. So, the lower decks which were poorly ventilated reeked and were a breeding ground for disease. Statistically the biggest danger for a Sailor in the Royal Navy wasn’t enemy action, where disease and accidents accounted for 81% of deaths at sea.

The Royal Navy had decided that food and mealtimes were key to a happy ship. 45 minutes was allowed for breakfast, and 90 for dinner and supper. Dinner the mid day meal was the main meal.

Surprisingly Officers had the same rations as enlisted men, but officers could supplement these rations with a mess subscription. All the meals were cooked in the gallery using a large stove. Usually though Cooks did not have training or experience to be ships cook, they just needed to be a pensioner.

Meals were predictable, typically boiled or salted pork or beef were served from Sunday to Tuesday and Thursdays. Oatmeal and sugar with butter or cheese were common. Each man had a one-gallon ration of beer with low alcohol content which provided heavy calories.

A typical Super would be Lobcouse, which was a salted and boiled meat, onions and pepper combined with hard tack biscuits, the mixture was then stewed and served with a half pinto or wine of a pint of Grog to wash it down. Grog was a key defender against Scurvy. It was Rum mixed with water, lemon juice and cinnamon. Now looking at that diet, you’d think that the crew would be stumbling around the deck blasted all day. But being caught drunk was severely punished by the captain.

Speaking of Discipline, these ships were out to sea for long periods of time so crew discipline was harshly enforced. When the Victory was commissioned the Articles of War was read to the crew, and then once a month after that. By 1757 there were 35 articles, and any infractions not specifically named in the first 34 was covered in the 35th. This gave the Captain leeway to punish sailors based on his discretion.

Punishment could range from beatings with a cane to tying a sailor spread eagle to a sale. Serious offences would be dealt with by the Captain with the worst going to court marshals. Punishments could range from dis-rating a sailor, cutting off their rations to flogging, though the maximum was legally 12 lashes, this was ignored by some Captains. In some cases, a sailor might be flogged around the fleet, which meant that he would be transported to and flogged on each ship in the harbour. For the most egregious crimes the ultimate punishment was hanging.

Action Stations

From her commissioning in 1778 until 1796, Victory roamed the oceans, her first Captain was Sir John Lindsay, who had joined the Navy in 1756, and later achieved the rank of Rear Admiral, and was knighted before serving as a MP in Parliament. His Tenure was short as Admiral Augustus Keppel named the Victory as his flag ship and appointed Rear Admiral John Campell as Captain and Lindsay was transferred off.

Battle of Ushant 1st and 2nd.

On July 9, 1778, Victor put to sea as the flag ship of 29 Ships of the Line, this was a massive fleet at the time. On July 23, they sighted a equal sized French Force off of the Island of Ushant. The French Admiral had orders to avoid battle, but the British fleet cut them off from returning to the French port city of Brest. The French tried to manoeuvre free, however due to shifting winds and driving rain, battle became inevitable. The British managed to keep their column discipline. However the French managed to get some of their ships to pass along the British line. Victor opened fire on the French Flagship Bretagne, which was being trailed by her 89 gun Ville de Paris. The British managed to avoid major damage. But the follow up division under Captain Hugh Palliser suffered damage from the French Guns. Keppel made signal to follow the French, but Palliser in command of the famous HMS Formidable refused the order and the French fleet was lost. Keppel was court marshalled for allowing the French fleet to escape but was cleared. Palliser was not cleared by an Inquiry and his reputation was ruined, but he was eventually cleared in a General Court Marshal.

In 1780 Victory received a needed refit, her hull was sheathed with 3,923 sheets of copper below the water line to protect it from ship worm. The victory returned to duty under the Command of Captain Henry Cromwell, and Admiral Richard Kempenfelt raised his pennant as Victory became the flagship of a fleet that included 11 other ships of the line a 50 gun fourth rate and five frigates. This fleet was to intercept a French Convoy out of Brest. The British originally expected the Convoy to be protected by 10 French Ships of the Line. However they were surprised to find out that the Squadron had been re-enforced and now numbered 19 Ships of the Line, which were protecting 100 transport ships.

The French fleet was situated downwind from the Convoy, allowing Kempenfelt to sweep in with a speed advantage to capture 15 ships carrying troops and supplies before the French could intervene. However, Kempenfelt knew that his fleet wasn’t strong enough to take on the French escorts, but he caught a break due to the bad weather forcing the French fleet to disperse and return to port.

The Great Siege of Gibraltar.

In 1779 Spain and France attempted to capture the British Naval Base at Gibraltar during the American Revolutionary War. A great blockade was enacted as the French and Spanish committed 47 ships of the line and 30 gunboats to starve the British out. It failed. Victory under Admiral Richard Howe was the fleet flagship for a convoy of transport and managed to resupply Gibralter before the beginning of the Blockade.

Battle of Hyeres Islands

This was a naval engagement fought between a combined British and Neapolitian Fleet and the French Mediterranean fleet during the French Revolutionary War in 1795. The Victory came under fire and returned fire in kind blasting a French Rowboat.

Battle of Cape St. Vincent.


By 1796 Captain Robert Calder and taken over Command of the Victory, and Admiral Sir John Jervis had raised his fleet command pendant. By this point in time the British position had become un-defendable in the Mediterranean in the face of a powerful force of a powerful French and Spanish fleet.

Jervis had stationed his fleet off Cape St Vincent to prevent the Spanish from Sailing North to protect Horatio Nelson and his fleet of 5 ships while they evacuated the Island of Elba. Once the evacuation was completed Nelson sailed for Gibraltar and while on the way he learned that the Spanish fleet had sailed past a few days before. The Spanish fleet had been blown off of course by gale force winds and was working its way back to Cadz. In an amazing display of nerves and thanks to darkness and a thick fog, Nelson sailed his ships through the Spanish fleet and rendezvoused with Jarvis. By this time the British had re-enforced Jarvis with a further 5 ships of the Line, and the British now had a fleet of 15 ships of the Line with Jarvis on the 100-gun Victory. Jervis split his ships into two lines of battle but was not aware of the size of the Spanish fleet until sails started appearing on the horizon and Calder and Jervis started counting sails on the horizon.

"There are eight sail of the line, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are twenty sail of the line, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are twenty-five sail of the line, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are twenty-seven sail of the line, Sir John"
"Enough, sir, no more of that; the die is cast, and if there are fifty sail I will go through them

The Spanish had sailed in two divisions, and Jervis was determined to steer between them, surprised by his ferocity Victory exploited the gap raking the Spanish ships with fire from its 100 cannons. The 104 gun 3 decked Principe de Asturias was battered and according to Jervis squared her yards and ran clear out of the battle and did not return. Jervis then realizing that the split Spanish fleet could cross behind the victory and reunite ordered his ships to change course. But Sir Charles Thompson who was leading the rear division, failed to obey and the following ships were indecisive on whether to follow Thompson or Jervis. The decision was made by Nelson on the HMS Captain a 74-gun 3rd ship of the line. Nelson broke off and attacked the Spanish main fleet capturing two ships within minutes and the other ships of the rear division followed suite and the Spanish fleet was routed by the much smaller British fleet, they were prevented form joining French and Dutch allies in the channel. And the Spanish fleet lost 4 ships of the line to British captures, 250 Spanish sailors were killed, 550 wounded and 3000 taken prisoner. The British lost 73 dead and 227 wounded.

When Captain Calder later bought up Nelson’s disobeying of orders by his division commander, Jervis glibly stated "It certainly was so, and if you ever commit such a breach of your orders, I will forgive you also."

Jervis and Nelson were hailed as heroes, Jervis was made a Baron and an Earl, Nelson was invested as a Knight of the Bath. Jervis was also vested with a 3,000 pound per year pension.

Return home and reconstruction.

After the Battle of St. Vincent, the Victory returned home to England, when it was inspected, it was found that the stern timbers had weakened, and it was no longer ship worthy. She was declared unfit for active service and anchored off the Chatham Dockyard for 2 years until 1798, when she was ordered to be converted to a hospital and prison ship for Spanish and French prisoners.

But fate intervened, when the HMS Impregnable a 98-gun Second Ship of the Line was lost off Chichester when she ran aground while escorting a convoy to Lisbon. She couldn’t be re-floated and was stripped and dismantled leaving the British Navy in need for another Ship of the line. The Admiralty looked at the old Victory and decided to recondition the Victory. As the work proceeded more and more defects were found and what was deemed to be a repair and refit became a reconstruction. The original cost estimate of 23,000 pounds exploded to 70,933 pounds. They increased the gun count to 104 and lined the magazine with copper both to protect powder from moisture and to prevent fires. The galleries along her stern weas removed. Her sales and masts were replaced, and she was given a yellow and black paint job a pattern that was adopted by most of the Royal Navy and called the Nelson Chequer. The work was completed in 1802, and the Victory sailed under her new captain Samuel Sutton.

Under Admiral Nelson


The one-armed Admiral hoisted his flat on the Victory on May 18, 1803. Nelson to this day is one of the greatest Naval Commanders in history combining a firm grasp of tactics with an aggressive nature and a person high level of bravery. But it came with a cost. Nelson had lost partial sight in one eye in Corsica and had lost his arm in the Battle of Santa Cruz de Tenerife. He had taken part in over 20 battles over 4 wars with Trafalgar being his tragic last and yet most glorious battle.

The Battle of Trafalgar

The Battle of Trafalgar took place on October 20th, 1805, between the French Navy and their Spanish allies and the British Navy during the War of the Third Coalition of the Napoleonic Wars. As part of Napoleon’s plans to invade the United Kingdom, the French and Spanish Fleets with 33 Ships of the Line were to take control of the English Channel to provide the Grande Armee safe passage.

French Admiral Pierre-Charles Villeneuve and his fleet sailed from the port of Cadiz in South France on the 18th of October 1805, and they encountered the British fleet of 27 Ships of the Line under Horatio Nelson on Oct 21st.

Nelson was outnumbered 27 Ships of the Line to 33 Ships of the Line. As a note the Spanish fleet had the largest warship in the world at that time, the awesome Santisma Tinidad which featured over 130 guns over 3-gun decks.



Everyone knew that Nelson was going to address this unbalance by sailing his fleet directly at the allied battle line, even though he knew and worried about it Villeneuve failed to react to it. Nelson’s columns chopped the French/Spanish fleet into 3 groups and isolating the rear half form Villeneuve’s flag ship and giving Nelson’s fleet a temporary advantage, costing the Spanish and French 20 ships while the British lost no ships. Victory led the way; it broke the line between the 80 gun French Flagship Bucentaure and the 74 gun French Redoutable and fired her 100 guns at such close range that she singed the paint of both ships and the shock waves added to the damage caused by the shot killing over half of the men on both ships in one massive barrage. At a quarter past one 5 hours into the battle Admiral Hardy who was commanding Victory realized that Nelson was not at his side, he turned around to see Nelson kneeling on the deck with a smile on his face. Hardy rushed to his side

“Hardy, I do believe they have done it at last .... my backbone is shot through”

Nelson had been hit by a musket shot from the Mizzen-Top of the Redoubtable at a range of 50 feet. The ball entered through Nelson’s shoulder and passed through his lungs and struck his vertebrae.

Nelson was taken below deck while Hardy took over command of the battle. All the surgeon could do is make Nelson comfortable by bringing him lemonade. Hardy made his way down to see Nelson and witnessed his death with Nelson’s last coherent words being to ask that his family was taken care of, then with a sigh Nelson asked on hearing Hardy’s voice.

“Who is that?" On hearing that it was Hardy, he replied, "God bless you, Hardy."

But the battle wasn’t over, nor was Victory’s trials. The crew of the Redoubtable tried to board and take the Victory, but they were thwarted by the arrival of Admiral Eliab Harvey on the HMS Temeaire whose broad side sank the French ship and broke the spirit of the French and Spanish fleet. Nelson issued one last command to “Anchor the Fleet”. But this order was ignored by Admiral Cuthbert Collingwood who pressed the attack completing the route. But Victory had suffered badly, 57 of her crew were dead and 102 were wounded. Victory herself was battered and could not move under her own sails, she was towed back to Gibraltar for Repairs and then carried Nelson’s body back to England.

King George responded tearfully to the news of the Victory and Nelson’s death “We have lost more then we gained”.

The Times reporting on the victory at Trafalgar.

“We do not know whether we should mourn or rejoice. The country has gained the most splendid and decisive Victory that has ever graced the naval annals of England; but it has been dearly purchased”

After Trafalgar

The British Admiralty considered the Victory to be too old and too damaged to continue as a First-Rate ship of the line. They downgraded her guns replacing her 24 pounders with 18 pounders. She was then recommissioned as a troop ship in 1810, before being relocated to Portsmouth as a floating depot and finally a prison ship in 1813. She was finally towed into dry dock to repair her hull and refloated in 1824 and was designated as the Port Harbor’s flagship.

Victorian Era

In 1831, the Admiralty issued orders to break up the Victory for her timber, but there was a public outcry to save the ship, and so the Victory was left, forgotten at its Portsmouth Moring. They permitted public tours of the ship, but the Victory saw a resurgence when Princess Victory made a visit to the ship to meet the surviving veterans of Trafalgar. This generated a surge of interest, but the 10,000 to 12,000 people that toured the ship of year further damaged the ship. In 1854 the Victory sprang a leak and sank, she was raised and sank again in 1887. The Admiralty at this point provided a small subsidy for maintenance and in 1899 the Victor became home of a signal school.

In 1903 Victory continued to rot at her mooring. Then she was accidentally rammed by the HMS Neptune and only emergency repairs kept her from sinking. The Admiralty again proposed scrapping her, but King Edward VII prevented that.

In 1921, a public save the victory campaign was started led by shipping Magnate Sir James Caird. A considerable amount of dollars was spent on repairs and restoration.

Work was suspended during World War 2 and the old girl after nearly 150 years saw itself taking battle damage as she was struck by a 500-pound breaking her keel. The Germans saw this as a victory and announced that they had sunk the Victory, the Admiralty called them filthy liars.

Post World War 2 until today.

Keeping the Victory is a constant and expensive job, but the British have continued to refit and repair the old wooden ship. She has survived beetle infestations, and rotting word and fungus and pests. She was eventually restored to her Trafalgar configuration in the 1920’s and the work was finished in 2005; Her damaged sails were displayed in the Royal Naval Museum.
The Victory is now the oldest commissioned warship in the world and attracts 350,000 visitors a year.

Out Thoughts

The Victory is simply put an amazing story. A ship with a nearly 250 year record. She took part in 2 major battles in Trafalgar and St Vincent and came out victorious. Her actions and victory at Trafalgar cemented the Royal Navy’s reputation as the best in the world and saved the British Empire.

She served as the flag ship of a who’s who of Naval royalty from Keppel to Hardy to Jervis to Nelson. She was the home to thousands of sailors who joined the crew as 13-year-old boys and served on her til their retirement, and she always bought them home.

At the time of her construction her sail and hoist and hull construction were a marvel of engineering, she was a picture of speed, elegance and manoeuvrability with a vicious bite.

There are very few names of ships in Military History that produce a real reaction and sign of respect from people that study history or fight in wars. Victory, Enterprise, to name a few.

Before the Battle of Trafalgar Horatio Nelson signalled every ship in the fleet “England expects that every man will do his duty” Its as if that was a message from the ship itself.


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Old 10-05-2024, 08:15 PM   #240
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Well done, Captain.

Victory is a BEAUTIFUL lady.

Edit: Victory's home is at Portsmouth Historic Dockyard, which is an incredible museum. HMS Warrior is another ship housed there, and it's also a story that belongs in this thread.
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Last edited by Puppet Guy; 10-05-2024 at 08:33 PM.
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