Garbage bag day

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by 420since1974

The difference in how the officials called the regular season vs play-off games certainly makes it a tremendous challenge to build a team that can even make the play-offs, let alone excel at them.
Personally, I wish that the game was just called consistently, regardless of the time of the game or season.
Call everything or call next to nothing, JUST BE CONSISTENT.

I'm with you on this, why is there such a large discrepancy in what is being called in the regular season to the playoffs?

The only thing I agree they should let go in the playoffs is some of the roughing calls, especially in the post whistle scrums; let them at each other as long as their is no intent to injure.

But the slashes and the rest of it need to be far more consistent; why is the league about protecting the players in the regular season but that all goes out the window come playoff time?

[FaFaFlamey]

Yesterday during the Sharks game in OT there was a full on obvious trip. No call. A trip is a trip. It's not like in an NFL playoff game they stop making calls (yes there was the NO Saints pass interference non call but generally speaking).

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 420since1974

Will the Flames clear enough Cap Space for a new Top 6 Forward next season?
Personally, I doubt it.
Regardless if Smith is back next season or not, I expect that the Flames will spend roughly the same amount of money on goal-tending (currently $5.25M for both). It could be Rittich and Smith (at a reduced salary), or Rittich and someone new, but I seriously think that BT pays less than $6M combined).
I honestly doubt that there is any way to move Neal that would gain any Cap Space without giving up a very good prospect/draft pick, so I do not expect him to be traded before next season.
Trading Frolik ($4.3M), Brodie ($4.6504M), and Stone ($3.5M) for draft picks only should be just enough to cover the salary increases necessary to re-sign all of Calgary's RFAs and UFAs: Bennett, Fantenberg, Hathaway, Mangiapane, Prout, Quine, Rittich, Smith (or replacement) and Tkachuk.
I just don't see any Cap Space for a Top 6 forward without trading equal value roster player(s).
I think that BT will limit himself to minor depth tweaks (RD in Stockton is a definite need) and perhaps some gambles on overseas FAs in the 23 - 26 age range.

12.5 million wont be anywhere near enough to sign all those guys.

Bennett will want 3+ depending on term

Hathaway will want 1.5 or more

FAntenburg/Prout/Quine will get 800K-1M each

Rittich will want 3+ or more depending on contract length

2M for Smith/replacement

That is all of the 12.5 and you still haven't signed Tkachuk who will eat up all the original contract prices of those staying plus his own AND another 5-6 million per year.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Interesting about Monahan's off-season being mostly recovery from the surgery.

Maybe the lack of training meant he wasn't properly conditioned for the grind of the season. Would help explain why he fell off after the all star break.

But he had the best start to his season this year and his shot never looked better. It wasn’t until after the all star break where he had 10 days to rest up on a beach where he didn’t look good. I get everyone wants to excuse his performance, but he he looked slow and disinterested for months. Does anyone even know when he cracked he thumb? Was it it Hawaii? If not, then can it even be used as an excuse?




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[TheScorpion]

Reminder that the salary cap is projected to increase by $3.5 million this offseason.

Without signing any of their FAs, the Flames are projected to have roughly $14.4 million in cap space on July 1. That includes Brodie, Frolik, Stone, Ruzicka, etc.

Edit: I can't remember if I factored the Brouwer buyout into this calculation. I think I did, but I might not have.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

All of this is very interesting.

Was the loss to the avs due to size/"meanness" or due to speed?

I really thought it was meanness.

Flames forwards shrunk and avoided physicality, leaving a useless offense. Flames defence were influenced by the heavy pressure, resulting in many turnovers, lengthy defensive zone times, and 2 last game tying goals.

You can't out talent... Acquiring talent requires rebuilding or having cap space to gamble on landing a, likely over the hill, top free agent.

That is why i miss Daryll Sutter. He's a coach who's teams rarely tried to outskill teams to win. Ironically, he only won a first round once...

The nhl, the referees in particular, have made it clear that there are 2 different games/standards/rulebooks, a regular season and a playoffs.

Treliving did a tremendous job in creating a team that is terrific in the season, but what is painfully clear is that this has almost nothing in common with what it takes to win in the playoffs.

I think the speed was the biggest factor. I actually think the Flames out hit Colorado. The Avs speed just changed the way the game was completely IMO.

The back pressure the Avalanche put on the Flames forwards when they were on the attack made it very difficult for anyone to create plays which is typically what the Flames were very good at doing in the regular season, especially Johnny Gaudreau. But Gaudreau had no time or space because Colorado closed in on him very quickly when he had the puck so he turnovers happened.

Conversely, Colorado’s speed when counter attacking was unmatched. The way they moved the puck and skated with incredible speed through the neutral zone was terrifying. The constant shots and unrelenting pressure was just completely overwhelming for the Flames to handle. The defense constantly backing up as well just made for incredibly exhausting shifts and where the Flames would just end up dumping it in and going for a line change afterwards.


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[Flames0910]

But he had the best start to his season this year and his shot never looked better. It wasn’t until after the all star break where he had 10 days to rest up on a beach where he didn’t look good. I get everyone wants to excuse his performance, but he he looked slow and disinterested for months. Does anyone even know when he cracked he thumb? Was it it Hawaii? If not, then can it even be used as an excuse?

That it happened after the break is a bit weird I agree. But wouldn't a lack of conditioning present as "strong start, weak finish"?

[FanIn80]

- Backlund and Brodie for a 1RW
- Frolik and Janko for a 2/3 R/LW
- Sign or promote a 4 C and RW

Jonny Monny ?
Tkachuk Lindholm ?(or Bennett)
Bennett(or ?) Ryan Neal
Hathaway ? ?

Gio Andersson
Hanafin Hamonic
Valimaki Kylington

OR

- Monny, Backlund, 1st for Jack Hughes
- Frolik, Brodie for 2RW
- Sign or promote a 4 LW and RW

Johnny Hughes Bennett
Tkachuk Lindholm ?
Hathaway Ryan Neal
? Janko ?

Gio Andersson
Hanafin Hamonic
Valimaki Kylington

[Red]

A lot of talk about speed. I don't see it.
How many goals did the Aves score off the rush when the lead guy blew past coverage?
1. - Mac, OT GM2

Most goals were scored from between the dots or around the crease. Game 3 had a couple of odd man rush goals. But not really fast plays if you rewatch them.

The SH goal gm 2 was a breakaway caused by a dumb play, not speed.

The Flames are not a slow team. Colorado is not that fast of a team, they have a fast top line. But we have fast D too. Their best D were Cole and Zadorov. Stay at home tough Dmen.

Go figure.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Red

A lot of talk about speed. I don't see it.
How many goals did the Aves score off the rush when the lead guy blew past coverage?
1. - Mac, OT GM2

Most goals were scored from between the dots or around the crease. Game 3 had a couple of odd man rush goals. But not really fast plays if you rewatch them.

The SH goal gm 2 was a breakaway caused by a dumb play, not speed.

The Flames are not a slow team. Colorado is not that fast of a team, they have a fast top line. But we have fast D too. Their best D were Cole and Zadorov. Stay at home tough Dmen.

Go figure.

Tell that to Peters. He's the one that emphasized it in his interview.

[TheRealPepman]

Torie Peterson disclosed Rittich's injury and it was one of his knees.

SOURCE: https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/arou...ld/c-306957726

[Red]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Tell that to Peters. He's the one that emphasized it in his interview.

I didn't hear the interview. What did he say exactly?

Our team was fast all year. We all talked about how fast this team was playing. What happened?
Colorado was faster not because they are skater to skater faster. They were able to skate while we were not. They were able to skate to the net. We were not. Speed wasn't the factor there.

And what did we expect Peters to say,.team is full of softies?

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

- Backlund and Brodie for a 1RW
- Frolik and Janko for a 2/3 R/LW
- Sign or promote a 4 C and RW

Jonny Monny ?
Tkachuk Lindholm ?(or Bennett)
Bennett(or ?) Ryan Neal
Hathaway ? ?

Gio Andersson
Hanafin Hamonic
Valimaki Kylington

OR

- Monny, Backlund, 1st for Jack Hughes
- Frolik, Brodie for 2RW
- Sign or promote a 4 LW and RW

Johnny Hughes Bennett
Tkachuk Lindholm ?
Hathaway Ryan Neal
? Janko ?

Gio Andersson
Hanafin Hamonic
Valimaki Kylington

Pick 26, monny and Backlund for Hughes? That would be some sort of steal for the flames. I think you might need to add another 2-3 first rounders on top of that price.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Pick 26, monny and Backlund for Hughes? That would be some sort of steal for the flames. I think you might need to add another 2-3 first rounders on top of that price.

While I don’t necessarily disagree, I don’t think Hughes is going to be as generational as the McDavids/Matthews/MacKinnon etc.

He’s a small forward with skill, it may pan out but honestly I think at this point you’d hope he can become a Monahan speed being his upside, but a few injuries already.

I’m no professional scout but in what I’ve viewed he doesn’t stand out as a for sure #1 runaway pick.

[AC]

Originally Posted by TheRealPepman

Torie Peterson disclosed Rittich's injury and it was one of his knees.

SOURCE: https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/arou...ld/c-306957726

Yes, Treliving said the same thing earlier today:

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Treliving says Monahan was playing through a cracked thumb and Rittich's injury was knee.

Lindholm had a slight knee sprain in the last game.

They said it occured Dec 31 (8-5 game with fireworks vs SJ) but I would have guessed Jan 11th vs Florida, there was a scary looking collision late where Rittich looked to be calling for a trainer but stayed in. Probably didn't help regardless.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Royle9

While I don’t necessarily disagree, I don’t think Hughes is going to be as generational as the McDavids/Matthews/MacKinnon etc.

He’s a small forward with skill, it may pan out but honestly I think at this point you’d hope he can become a Monahan speed being his upside, but a few injuries already.

I’m no professional scout but in what I’ve viewed he doesn’t stand out as a for sure #1 runaway pick.

You might be right. I’m basing this on the highlights and the hype. I still think the Devils GM slams the phone down unless the original offer is dramatically increased....I can’t see it happening.

[CGY12]

Agree with people on the standard of officiating shouldn't change from regular season to post season. I can understand letting some of the roughing calls go, but when an opponent is hindering the opposition from making a play to score or generate space (hooking, slashing), that has to be called. The Flames definitely got the short end of the stick on the calls.

I am however not fully on board with the whole perception that "well the Flames built a team that works during the regular season but not for the post season because the rules change.". The playoffs ultimately come down to effort, wanting it more than the person lined up across from you, working your very hardest because their is no tomorrow, being able to handle adversity the right way. Everybody ramps up the intensity level and desperation, the lazy tendencies of the reg season go away. The Avalanche simply wanted it more and were willing to put in the work. The Flames were stuck in regular season gear.

[Strange Brew]

After reflecting on the interviews I heard today, my main takeaways are:

Somewhat unprompted, Peters brings up Lindholm playing center. I take that as him not being happy with that position and I expect a change. If absolutely nothing else, goodbye Jankowski.

His comment about having 10 guys when you can only play 6. He feels the defense depth is largely wasted. It’s a stretch to infer from that comment but I’d be surprised if a defenseman doesn’t get moved. Other teams have bargain basement guys on cheap 1 year deals on the bottom pair. Why can’t we?

Treliving didn’t sugar coat the series loss. Flames got owned and were lucky to win a game. I’m glad he thinks that way.

Smith and Rittich will be back.

I don’t care what Frolik thinks the Flames need. He’s gone.

We should see at least one new top 6 forward next year.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by 420since1974

The difference in how the officials called the regular season vs play-off games certainly makes it a tremendous challenge to build a team that can even make the play-offs, let alone excel at them.
Personally, I wish that the game was just called consistently, regardless of the time of the game or season.
Call everything or call next to nothing, JUST BE CONSISTENT.

Don't disagree, but that is not something the Flames can control.

They need to adapt and play within whatever strictures are set out for them. Johnny needs to hit and be hit, and slashed. And not whine.
Chucky needs to hit and be a pest...and stay within the confines of what the refs tell him.
Hath needs to challenge guys on the boards and fight them the way they fight him.

None of that has much to do with the refs. It is all about how each team and each player responds to the refs calls in that game - consistent or not. Watch, observe, adapt.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 420since1974

The difference in how the officials called the regular season vs play-off games certainly makes it a tremendous challenge to build a team that can even make the play-offs, let alone excel at them.
Personally, I wish that the game was just called consistently, regardless of the time of the game or season.
Call everything or call next to nothing, JUST BE CONSISTENT.

Refs changing how they call the game is only part of the reason why the playoffs are different from the regular season. The bigger reason is the players skate harder, close gaps faster, and finish their checks. If they're coached well, their whole game-plan is built around negating what the other team does well.

The Flames need to find a way to have success against tight-checking teams playing with tempo. That's just reality, and reffing won't change that.