Yes, and I don't think the rest of the GM's in the league are basing Ferland's value on what Burke says either. Just a broadcast guy now (decent one though).
Well, except that was a bit of inside info that only Burke and the present Flames mgt had.
For the right price of course, getting Ferland back would be a no brainer. Ferland checked out for large portions of last year but so did most of the team under Gulutzan. A healthy Ferland would be great... for the right price.
I think he only really succeeds when he has top tier linemates.
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Originally Posted by Groot
It also might show that Ferland needs high-skill teammates to be effective (when he's on) and he is not getting that in Calgary as a depth signing.
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Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
Ferland is a great complimentary player on a good line. He's not useful on a line without a driver.
There's a lot of revisionist history going on here.
Do people forget that Ferland was arguably the best player in our bottom six in the first half of the 2016-17 season? Playing mostly with the likes of Freddie Hamilton and Lance Bouma?
BEFORE being added to the Gaudreau-Monahan line, Ferland had 8g 7a in 55 GP while averaging only 10:44 of ice time a game.
Take a look at the numbers of any player presently on our roster averaging that kind of ice time, heck those are better totals than James Neal will have after 55 games, and Neal is averaging 15:11 of ice time - almost 50% more. But the actual reality is that Ferland alone had as much production as Czarnik + Hathaway have COMBINED this season averaging roughly the same minutes.
AC's 2016-17 Ferland video was a two-parter where the first half features almost zero Gaudreau or Monahan:
It's fine if people want to say Ferland's scoring slipped as last season wound to a close - but he was hardly the only guy to whom that applied as Backlund, Gaudreau, Frolik, Bennett among others all stopped producing while GG kept going through the motions.
But don't say he was useless without top line teammates. Calgary had the best 4th line in the NHL the last time he didn't play with top line teammates until Ferland was promoted from 4th line to 1st line. And I don't think it's a coincidence that Ferland's play slipped pretty much directly after his injury last year. Hockey players hide injuries all the time to look tough.
Adding Ferland to any team's bottom six will increase offensive production almost surely. No, he won't produce at a 30 goal pace. You don't do that playing bottom six minutes. But he would probably produce at rates similar to Bennett and Jankowski. You wouldn't add that to your team, with the knowledge that he can also produce at a 30 goal pace if you bump him up the lineup?
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This is not a drill. The stars are aligning, and the Flames will likely hit the post-season as top seed in the division, possibly the entire conference.
Gio is playing on borrowed time. The chances of him ever being this good again are extremely small. Tkachuk is on his ELC, and he’s going to do an extra $6-7m worth of damage to the roster next year.
The coach and the team are clicking. The roster is healthy. The starting goalie is in the groove.
It’s entirely realistic that RIGHT NOW is the best chance this core will ever have to win the cup.
I would absolutely pay a 1st and a prospect for a top-tier rental right now. The Flames need size, physicality, and secondary scoring (particularly for the 2PP unit). Ferland might be the best player on the market to fill those needs.
I think it’s time to go all-in.
If you are of this mind (as am I), and are willing to pay a first plus a prospect, why not do the same thing with a slightly higher price tag to acquire Mark Stone?
While Ferland is good, I think we all wax nostalgic for his performance against the Canucks in the playoffs a few years back. The reality is he hasn't been able to maintain that level of play, or to even stay consistently healthy, over the past few years.
If the Flames are pushing their chips in this season, and I think they should, then do so. In poker you don't go "kind of all-in" to win, just like you can't get half pregnant.
Pay the price for Mark Stone. 1st + two prospects gets it done. Then you have two legitimately terrifying lines to roll out for 17-19 mins a night, and your bottom two lines get even more dangerous because Frolik gets easier match ups.
Properly slotted depth is the reason the Flames have had a great season so far. People aren't playing out of their element. The one exception to that is the hole at 2nd line RW. Plug that hole with one of the best all around RW's in the league, and see if that's enough to hoist the cup in June.
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There's a lot of revisionist history going on here.
Do people forget that Ferland was arguably the best player in our bottom six in the first half of the 2016-17 season? Playing mostly with the likes of Freddie Hamilton and Lance Bouma?
BEFORE being added to the Gaudreau-Monahan line, Ferland had 8g 7a in 55 GP while averaging only 10:44 of ice time a game.
Take a look at the numbers of any player presently on our roster averaging that kind of ice time, heck those are better totals than James Neal will have after 55 games, and Neal is averaging 15:11 of ice time - almost 50% more. But the actual reality is that Ferland alone had as much production as Czarnik + Hathaway have COMBINED this season averaging roughly the same minutes.
AC's 2016-17 Ferland video was a two-parter where the first half features almost zero Gaudreau or Monahan:
It's fine if people want to say Ferland's scoring slipped as last season wound to a close - but he was hardly the only guy to whom that applied as Backlund, Gaudreau, Frolik, Bennett among others all stopped producing while GG kept going through the motions.
But don't say he was useless without top line teammates. Calgary had the best 4th line in the NHL the last time he didn't play with top line teammates until Ferland was promoted from 4th line to 1st line. And I don't think it's a coincidence that Ferland's play slipped pretty much directly after his injury last year. Hockey players hide injuries all the time to look tough.
Adding Ferland to any team's bottom six will increase offensive production almost surely. No, he won't produce at a 30 goal pace. You don't do that playing bottom six minutes. But he would probably produce at rates similar to Bennett and Jankowski. You wouldn't add that to your team, with the knowledge that he can also produce at a 30 goal pace if you bump him up the lineup?
I appreciate that I probably should have couched my comment, in that I think he has the potential to be a 30 goal scorer with top tier linemates, but we won't be able to provide that to him, and we would be paying a very high price compared with what he would bring with what linemates we could provide.
Trading Ferland away was a real ball breaker for me. He brought so much energy and a guy like him is what this team (besides a replacement for Smitty) could really use when the playoffs come around. The way he murdered the Canucks in that first round was unforgettable. I watch the video AC created of him doing just that the entire series every other week.
He won't be cheap to trade for. A guy that plays that role with that amount of talent doesn't come by very often.
If you acquire him you're probably looking at an 8-10 game stretch of good hockey and otherwise pretty invisible play. When was he a difference maker outside of the first line? Cause he won't play there.
Bennett is being the bulldog for the team now and is doing well at it. The team isn't missing him as much as some people are spinning it.
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This team absolutely misses a guy like Ferland. Even on his 'uneventful' games where people complained he wasn't playing well, Ferland was still good defensively, very strong along the boards, and still out-hit everyone. He didn't have to 'blow guys up' to be effective. I don't know how many hits I have seen Ferland throw that were completely unnoticeable, but then the replay showed the opposing player limping off the ice. Ferland hits HARD every time he hits, even if it doesn't look that way. I HOPE he doesn't play the way he did against Vancouver unless it is the Stanley Cup final - Ferland just needs to go out and get his 5-6 hits in, 3-4 shots on goal, and be defensively responsible. That adds a LOT to the success of any team. I absolutely love Bennett, but he doesn't hit like Ferland, especially on a consistent game-to-game basis. He just isn't built the same way.
If we're spending assets, I'd rather spend a 1st + whatever for Gustav Nyquist. Good two way guy in the same mould as Backs and Lindholm. Is only 28, and would only cost around 5.25-5.5 to re-sign and is young enough that you could throw a 4 year contract at that rate and he'd be fine.
A top 6 of Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm Tkachuk-Backlund-Nyquist would be ridiculous.
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If we're spending assets, I'd rather spend a 1st + whatever for Gustav Nyquist. Good two way guy in the same mould as Backs and Lindholm. Is only 28, and would only cost around 5.25-5.5 to re-sign and is young enough that you could throw a 4 year contract at that rate and he'd be fine.
A top 6 of Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm Tkachuk-Backlund-Nyquist would be ridiculous.
I don't really buy Nyquist as the go-to guy that the Flames should go after. I would go after Mark Stone, that guy is a stud.
Stone is better than Nyqvist for sure, but as CG said Nyqvist would be much more affordable. I could see him fitting in really well here too. He's like Frolik but with more speed and offensive ability.
If you don’t want to upset the chemistry or the room, I think the only chance is to go back to the Carolina well and get McBackup and Ferland.
We have no idea what the cost to acquire Ferland will be. I think his streaky play, concussion history, and general health will affect his price- granted when he’s healthy and streaking he’s an absolute beast.
I’d be looking to replace Czarnik for Ferland, Gillies with McElhinney. Carolina gets young players with salary controls, Calgary adds with a pick, maybe 4th or 3rd.
I don't really buy Nyquist as the go-to guy that the Flames should go after. I would go after Mark Stone, that guy is a stud.
Oh for sure, but It's going to cost more along the line of 1st + Valimaki for Stone than a 1st + say Eat Bread for Nyquist. Plus it's less likely to re-sign Stone as he'll probably get 7.5ish million. You could easily keep Nyquist by moving Frolik out during the summer, and bolster your lineup for next season as well.
If that were hypothetically to happen, then your lineup heading into next year is
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Nyquist
Bennett-Jankowski-Neal
Dube or other young LW-Ryan-Hathaway
Add in no changes to the D-corp other than perhaps swapping stone out for a less expensive option for #7 and Smith for a decent backup and you're looking at the best team in the west next year and perhaps the league and it's entirely affordable under the cap.
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Oh for sure, but It's going to cost more along the line of 1st + Valimaki for Stone than a 1st + say Eat Bread for Nyquist. Plus it's less likely to re-sign Stone as he'll probably get 7.5ish million. You could easily keep Nyquist by moving Frolik out during the summer, and bolster your lineup for next season as well.
If that were hypothetically to happen, then your lineup heading into next year is
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Nyquist
Bennett-Jankowski-Neal
Dube or other young LW-Ryan-Hathaway
Add in no changes to the D-corp other than perhaps swapping stone out for a less expensive option for #7 and Smith for a decent backup and you're looking at the best team in the west next year and perhaps the league and it's entirely affordable under the cap.
Smith is not a reasonable back-up option for next season and subtracting Frolik for Nyqvist really dilutes the add, as Frolik is a great role player.
Adding Nyquist without losing Frolik seems closer to "best team in the league" talk.
