Again...Rittich had just started 4 games in 6 days and that was after coming into the 3rd period the game before all of that.
Starting Smith yesterday was the right choice unless you want to kill the #1 guy before the end of January.
On the other hand, Rittich just had 2 days off after the last game. So really it was 4 games in 8 days.
And there are 4 rest days available immediately after.
Is that really going to kill Rittich?
With, admittedly, the full benefit of hindsight, it turns out it was the wrong choice. Unless the Flames viewed it as throwaway points. Because whether or not Smith can last a game without a softie is pretty much a coin toss now.
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
On the other hand, Rittich just had 2 days off after the last game. So really it was 4 games in 8 days.
And there are 4 rest days available immediately after.
Is that really going to kill Rittich?
With, admittedly, the full benefit of hindsight, it turns out it was the wrong choice. Unless the Flames viewed it as throwaway points. Because whether or not Smith can last a game without a softie is pretty much a coin toss now.
He played Saturday, played Sunday, day off, played Tuesday, day off, played Thursday....
how is that anything but 4 games in 6 days?
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...Waiting until there is an injury is not the correct way to GM.
So, what should the GM do in this situation? Should he immediately acquire whatever goalie ha can for the cost he is willing to pay and hope for the best? Or does he continue too wait it out and look for better options until a clear upgrade that makes sense becomes available? Because I continue to believe that management is not impressed by what they see on the market, and this is why they have not yet pulled the trigger. Until something improves, the current rotation is likely to continue whether we like it or not.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
TBL didn't have to do that. They just keep executing and their speed stretches teams out of that defensive shape.
It is also worth pointing out that part of what made this an easier plan to execute for TB was the fact that the Oilers blue line is decimated. When Calgary played Edmonton they had a full complement of defensemen, while the Flames were also without their #1 defenseman and their #2 centre.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
It is also worth pointing out that part of what made this an easier plan to execute for TB was the fact that the Oilers blue line is decimated. When Calgary played Edmonton they had a full complement of defensemen, while the Flames were also without their #1 defenseman and their #2 centre.
The Oilers don't have a full complement of defenseman.
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The Oilers don't have a full complement of defenseman.
They had "their" full complement of defensemen at the time they played the Flames. Not that it's an NHL level group by any stretch of the imagination, but my point was that it was even worse in last night's game v. TB.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
And as for CBJ and NAS, they both have a proven, solid #1, and their backup is playing much fewer games.
No other contender is teetering on the edge of the goaltending abyss the way the Flames are.
I mean, you asked about backups so I gave you the answer of teams struggling with one of their two goalies.
Jones has been pretty far below average and he’s their top guy. CBJ definitely hasn’t seen the returns of a “proven, solid #1” in Bob with his .913, which is well below Rittich. In fact, Rittich is going toe to toe with Rinne.
At some point you just have to see that the Flames situation isn’t “teetering on the edge of goaltending abyss” this year. Instead, it’s eerily similar to almost every top 16 team in the NHL.
Of the teams above us in P%, Rittich is playing better than Hutton, about as well as Rinne and Anderson, with only Vasilevsky looking miles ahead than the competition. Call me a sucker for not being too worried, but if the Flames are facing a goaltending situation that might make their success unsustainable, so is nearly every team around us. That’s a nice reality.
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They are giving Smith a long rope because there aren’t any better realistic options. They don’t have cap space for a guy like Bobrovsky even if they were okay with the acquisition cost, which they probably aren’t. Hell the cost for guys like Kiemper and Johnson is still probably a second round pick, this board will freak out when that trade Is made.
The goalies in Stockton are worse than Smith right now.
Flames have no option but to give Smith a long rope. It’s not about them not seeing what we see or having some undying loyalty to a former Coyote, it’s about there not being very good alternative options.
The big kick in the balls is Gillies. He was suppose to be close. Instead, he’s worse than Smith in the AHL than Smith at the NHL level.
I would easily give up a 2nd round pick for Kuemper right now.
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Originally Posted by Textcritic
Yes, and he has an 11-7-1 record. What exactly is going to suddenly change to make the situation worse?
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So you’re comfortable/confident that the team in front of him can continue to put up 5 or 6 goals when he frequently has a bad game? I’m sure the hell not.
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A number of posters are completely discounting games in which Mike Smith has been a positive contributor. The shutouts. The win in Chicago. The win vs. Toronto.
No one is discounting anything. Smith did his job in those games. That's the type of goaltending you expect from a NHL starter. Yes, Smith had a couple of really strong games in those shutouts. We'll have to disagree on the Toronto game. The important thing about being a starter in the NHL is consistency, and Smith displays none of that. He's done, and is shows with every downward facing snow angel he makes as flails away after getting beat like a rented mule.
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What I have never done is discounted the fact that while he has had terrible games the team has continued to win in spite of him. Like I continue to maintain I don't see why this pattern won't simply continue.
The only pattern Smith displays is a pattern of inconsistency. He is extremely lucky that this team has managed to suck it up and outscore the opposition when Smith ####s the bed. You could see it in the faces of the players during last night's game. Smith's crap play is wearing on the team. He's cost the ten 10 points in the standings on his own. 10 ####ing points! If he was a rookie, he'd be on a bus in the minors never to be seen again. He's been that bad. At this point I would rather see what we have in Gillies than have to suffer through another minute of Mike Smith. He's the worst goaltender in the league.
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Yeah, this is going to happen from time to time. As it will with virtually any of the proposed replacements for Mike Smith that we have seen in this thread, whom the Flames might be in a position to acquire.
I can't think of another goaltender in the NHL that can have five losses laid right at his feet because of his inability to stop simple shots. AC could have a field day with the Smith low lights this year. Seriously, fire up the Benny Hill music and just show Smith's play. The apologetics have to stop.
I would easily give up a 2nd round pick for Kuemper right now.
Maybe the GM is less comfortable with that cost—if that is a deal that is actually even on the table.
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So you’re comfortable/confident that the team in front of him can continue to put up 5 or 6 goals when he frequently has a bad game? I’m sure the hell not.
In Mike Smith's last ten starts he has allowed 3, 2, 3, 1, 1, 2, 0, 2, 4, 3 goals. I am confident that this is fairly representative of what we can expect for the remainder of the season with a split workload. I am confident that the Flames can win five of those games. If they win five of those and seven of Rittich's ten starts on average that is a 0.600 winning percentage. With 55 games left that leaves them with 113 points on the season. Yeah, I'm not especially worried.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I am not particularly interested in repeating myself to every poster who decides to respond with the same things over and over again. I have dealt with everything in this post several times over already, but this bit is utter bullocks:
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Originally Posted by New Era
...You could see it in the faces of the players during last night's game. Smith's crap play is wearing on the team...
Posters should not be making meaningless anecdotal arguments on the basis of facial expressions of players on the ice during a game. This is nonsense.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Yes the Flames came out flat. But momentum is a huge part of the game.
That's pretty much broadcaster's hype.
Sportscasters would have you believe that
(a) momentum is this enormous unstoppable force that can decide a game, AND
(b) momentum can turn on a dime and suddenly go the opposite way.
You can't have both. If it's an unstoppable force, then nobody should be able to stop it. If it can reverse directions as quickly as flipping a switch, it's not much of a force. But pretending that both these things are true is an easy way to construct a narrative out of a nothing game in the middle of a long season.
The trouble with that game was not so much that the Flames came out flat, but that they stayed flat. St. Louis took the initiative, and once they had a decent lead they did their best to dictate the pace for the rest of the game. The Flames' effort, when it came, was uncoordinated and unproductive. When you butt your head against a wall for 40 minutes, it doesn't really look like you're doing anything at all.
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Posters should not be making meaningless anecdotal arguments on the basis of facial expressions of players on the ice during a game. This is nonsense.
Take a look at the highlight package from last nights game. Peters' face after the third goal. Disbelief. There was a shot of Gaudreau during the same time frame that said it all. He looked completely deflated. No anecdotes, just simple reactions to Smith not being able to stop a simple shot.
Then there is James Neal from earlier in the season, who rips Smith on the ice.
A number of posters are completely discounting games in which Mike Smith has been a positive contributor. The shutouts. The win in Chicago. The win vs. Toronto. What I have never done is discounted the fact that while he has had terrible games the team has continued to win in spite of him. Like I continue to maintain I don't see why this pattern won't simply continue.
I find that anticipating Flames have to continue to win games against a handicap because the high probability of a gimmie goal is going to lead to more losses than wins overtime. I say that if the status quo with Smith remains, it'll be unsustainable record wise. At some point the team can't dig themselves out of the hole each and every time.
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Yeah, this is going to happen from time to time. As it will with virtually any of the proposed replacements for Mike Smith that we have seen in this thread, whom the Flames might be in a position to acquire.
The thing is, this should be happening on rare occasions, rather than the opposite. The criteria in being a NHL goalie in general is consistency to make the stops that you should make. Mike Smith hasn't done that, and he's not at the level you even expect of a NHL backup. This is why I feel that there are available options that at this point would be an upgrade upon Smith; because I don't feel they could really be doing any worse.
...The thing is, this should be happening on rare occasions, rather than the opposite. The criteria in being a NHL goalie in general is consistency to make the stops that you should make. Mike Smith hasn't done that, and he's not at the level you even expect of a NHL backup. This is why I feel that there are available options that at this point would be an upgrade upon Smith; because I don't feel they could really be doing any worse.
If you believe this, then you must also believe that the GM is either intentionally refusing to make necessary upgrades, or he is incapable of seeing something that is patently obvious to casual viewers from the other side of their televisions.
If there are available options, then why do the Flames not acquire one?
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Sportscasters would have you believe that
(a) momentum is this enormous unstoppable force that can decide a game, AND
(b) momentum can turn on a dime and suddenly go the opposite way.
You can't have both. If it's an unstoppable force, then nobody should be able to stop it. If it can reverse directions as quickly as flipping a switch, it's not much of a force. But pretending that both these things are true is an easy way to construct a narrative out of a nothing game in the middle of a long season.
The trouble with that game was not so much that the Flames came out flat, but that they stayed flat. St. Louis took the initiative, and once they had a decent lead they did their best to dictate the pace for the rest of the game. The Flames' effort, when it came, was uncoordinated and unproductive. When you butt your head against a wall for 40 minutes, it doesn't really look like you're doing anything at all.
No one said momentum was an unstoppable force but you.
If you believe this, then you must also believe that the GM is either intentionally refusing to make necessary upgrades, or he is incapable of seeing something that is patently obvious to casual viewers from the other side of their televisions.
If there are available options, then why do the Flames not acquire one?
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You're viewing it so absolute, when you fully know that's not the case. Let's take last year for example with Gulutzan. Many, including myself, were annemant that he isn't a good coach for this team, and Treliving came to the same conclusion at the end of the season. He may have thought so beforehand, but he didn't act on it until the opportunity arise that he could replace him with someone else. And that person didn't become available until the end of the season.
Treliving could be thinking the exact way as me with Smith, and is looking for the right deal, and right time to do it. Up until this point, it's fair to give Smith ample opportunity to see if he has a place on the regular rotation in the least, but as this season drags on, and games become more crucial, it's becoming more apparent that Smith isn't going to find his game back, and he can't play at this level anymore that is required for how good this team is.
It's worth the chance now to see if a lateral move at worse can't yield positive contributions.
No one said momentum was an unstoppable force but you.
I was speaking rhetorically – since I was talking about sportscasters' rhetoric. They are sadly liable to make absolute statements by way of hyperbole: another way of constructing narratives out of nothing games. If they haven't used the word ‘unstoppable’ with reference to a team's momentum, it is because they haven't thought of it yet, not because they object to it as a tribe. And I do seem to recall the term being used from time to time.
Anyway: If this so-called momentum can completely change direction from one play to the next, then it is not a force at all. Not an unstoppable one, not a strong one, not even a weak one. Water down my statement as much as you like, and it remains true that the two things claimed are mutually contradictory.
In fact, I've read some of the work by hockey statisticians who have tried to quantify ‘momentum’. They concluded that it doesn't exist. Unfortunately, as so often happens, the links have since been borked.
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Last edited by Jay Random; 12-23-2018 at 10:36 PM.
You're viewing it so absolute, when you fully know that's not the case...
Yeah, if you took the time to read my many posts in this thread you would see that this is very much what I have been saying all along.
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as this season drags on, and games become more crucial, it's becoming more apparent that Smith isn't going to find his game back, and he can't play at this level anymore that is required for how good this team is.
It's worth the chance now to see if a lateral move at worse can't yield positive contributions.
I also have never suggested that I think there is much chance of Smith returning to his same form from early last season. I am quite sure he will continue to perform at the same level he has this season. Where we differ is in our beliefs about the likely outcome. I think that Smith is not likely to get any worse. He will have strong games and bad games, and he will win more than half his starts, just like he has to this point.
I also disagree about the benefits of a “lateral move.” A trade will cost assets—I believe the cost is higher now than anyone in the Flames organization is willing to pay, because they do not feel the net result justifies the expense. I think that is a fair concern, and the decision to hold at this point is a sound one.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
