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Old 06-26-2021, 10:41 PM   #221
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Well they should have leases that would have fixed payments, that should limit their losses.

But since there are 500 stalls and only 120 are rented, I’d say the owners of the project are bleeding money. They can’t even raise rent on new leases, who would pay it?

I figure there are several companies watching with interest for the inevitable demise of this failure if a mall and will scoop it up when it goes belly up.
New Horizon is business condo style. Individuals or groups purchased condo units and either used them, sat on them, or rented them out to other suckers.
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:36 PM   #222
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Wait for it to crater in value, buy it and create a evil organization bent on world conquest and house it there.


Every one gets an office, except for you Captain Insanity, you serve fries in the food court.
would Facebook relocate to Calgary though?
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:40 PM   #223
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would Facebook relocate to Calgary though?

I was thinking it would be a good spot for Globex Corporation.
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Old 06-27-2021, 03:21 AM   #224
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I was thinking it would be a good spot for Globex Corporation.
I thought we were talking like real evil here
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Old 06-28-2021, 09:13 PM   #225
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We checked it out for the first time this past weekend. Wow, is it ever dead. We bought a couple of things at The Best Shop, but other than that, there was nothing of interest. Food court only had four or five places, I will admit that the Chinese food I had was quite good - because it was so quiet, they made the food fresh to order.

I have no desire to go back again.
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Old 06-29-2021, 03:54 AM   #226
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You can lease a 300 sq/ft corner spot at horizon for $600/month, same thing at Chinook is around $25k/month.

I have a hard time feeling sorry for the investors as for many years people like Forbes, Bloomberg and others have predicted Malls will be the thing of the past very soon yet people still fall this marketing, It's like investing in a payphone company AFTER the iphone is released

This place needs some major help or should I say luck, as in it gets swallowed by a huge sinkhole.
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Old 06-29-2021, 09:14 AM   #227
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it would be interesting to know if this mall would have worked better if it was located somewhere within calgary or if it is more something that would work only in Vancouver/toronto
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Old 06-29-2021, 09:17 AM   #228
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It was nothing more than a real estate developer scam. Otherwise they would have run it normally via lease. Now the stigma they created behind it is further preventing it moving forward. Allowing no restriction on people buying and sub-leasing was a huge mistake, nearly everyone bought to sit on an investment.

I think the premise was flawed. If you fill it with Amazon/AliExpress crap, why travel there when you get free delivery on that stuff. It's hard to say though if the types of goods/businesses would have been different had they went through a different lease model. Perhaps if the businesses were better, then the location would not have mattered.
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Old 06-29-2021, 09:21 AM   #229
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It was nothing more than a real estate developer scam. Otherwise they would have run it normally via lease.
I don't agree with the word scam here. How were any of the purchasers scammed? What were they told that wasn't correct?

Developers built a space, sold the space. Has highway access, the space is what they said it was.

No scam to me. Just short sighted buyers.

More like a speculation bubble.
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Old 06-29-2021, 09:22 AM   #230
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I don't agree with the word scam here. How were any of the purchasers scammed? What were they told that wasn't correct?

Developers built a space, sold the space. Has highway access, the space is what they said it was.

No scam to me. Just short sighted buyers.

More like a speculation bubble.
This is true, all the info was up front. Not a scam then, lets call it a make a quick buck scheme.
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Old 06-29-2021, 09:53 AM   #231
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it would be interesting to know if this mall would have worked better if it was located somewhere within calgary or if it is more something that would work only in Vancouver/toronto
Aberdeen Center and Pacific Mall both have rockin' food courts, legitimate anchor tenants, and good public transit accessibility.

They also do small events at both of those malls to help draw people in. Last time I was at Pacific Mall, they had some sort of karaoke competition going on in the main atrium area and brought in a couple canto popstars as judges/MCs, which was pretty cool and well attended.

New Horizon could have been a success if they actually tried emulating Aberdeen and Pacific instead of going with that incredibly stupid ownership model. Plus all the other bad decisions like opening without an anchor tenant or a food court...
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Old 06-29-2021, 10:20 AM   #232
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Aberdeen Center and Pacific Mall both have rockin' food courts, legitimate anchor tenants, and good public transit accessibility.

They also do small events at both of those malls to help draw people in. Last time I was at Pacific Mall, they had some sort of karaoke competition going on in the main atrium area and brought in a couple canto popstars as judges/MCs, which was pretty cool and well attended.

New Horizon could have been a success if they actually tried emulating Aberdeen and Pacific instead of going with that incredibly stupid ownership model. Plus all the other bad decisions like opening without an anchor tenant or a food court...
New Horizon Mall should've been within the city itself rather than only accessible by car because as you mentioned, good public transit access.

Franklin Mall/Pacific Place Mall righty by Marlborough Station would be ideal for a mall like this in the city.
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Old 06-29-2021, 11:46 AM   #233
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New Horizon could have been a success if they actually tried emulating Aberdeen and Pacific instead of going with that incredibly stupid ownership model. Plus all the other bad decisions like opening without an anchor tenant or a food court...
I believe Pacific Mall is also owned as individual condo units -- no doubt they used the success of Pacific Mall to lure investors to buy into New Horizon. And even with anchor tenants and food court, the location is still going to be horrible for something like this.
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:00 PM   #234
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I kind of liked the idea of just a mall filled with hundreds if kiosks with not many big tenants.

Just in the wrong location.
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:26 PM   #235
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This is true, all the info was up front. Not a scam then, lets call it a make a quick buck scheme.
Ahhh....I dont know about that.

I think it actually might be closer to a 'Scam' than we're giving it credit for.

As I understand the Developer wanted to sell the Units to people who were then going to Lease those units to Businesses...rather than the businesses themselves.

The idea being that the Buyers' Investments would be appreciating while the Lease to the Businesses would be covering their monthly costs while the Developer and the Investors reap the benefits apparently, largely at the expense of the businesses themselves.

Its been a while since I've looked into all the details, but thats my recollection. Hence why I really DGAF about the trials and tribulations of New Horizons Mall.

It was a Real Estate game all along, and nothing the Developer of the Buyers did actually added any value and the costs being associated to the businesses was unlikely to make for a very profitable venture, so them getting screwed shall elicit no tears from me.

You're not going to make a lot of money at the Real Estate Game selling empty condos in the middle of F-All Nowhere. I think Real Estate professionals have a saying for this...something, something, Location?
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:31 PM   #236
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I go there sometimes, usually to the Best Shop. That has some pretty good stuff. Better than going to a Dollarama IMO.

Yes, the mall's still pretty empty, but it's slowly getting more and more shops. It's not as bad as the media sensationalizes it. Does it need more shops? Absolutely. I still want this mall to succeed in the long run. I just hope people actually give it a chance rather than just writing it off right away.
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:37 PM   #237
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I go there sometimes, usually to the Best Shop. That has some pretty good stuff. Better than going to a Dollarama IMO.

Yes, the mall's still pretty empty, but it's slowly getting more and more shops. It's not as bad as the media sensationalizes it. Does it need more shops? Absolutely. I still want this mall to succeed in the long run. I just hope people actually give it a chance rather than just writing it off right away.
First of all...if I ever drive all the way to Balzac to go to a Dollarama someone is going to be legally obligated to shoot me in the face.

Secondly, I dont think anyone wants the mall to fail, per se. It was a good idea in spirit but the executed business model is inherently flawed.

In order for it to succeed you have to rely on the businesses that add value to the location, but the structure of the model stacks the deck against those entities. So...it's failure is effectively a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 06-29-2021, 01:35 PM   #238
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First of all...if I ever drive all the way to Balzac to go to a Dollarama someone is going to be legally obligated to shoot me in the face.

Secondly, I dont think anyone wants the mall to fail, per se. It was a good idea in spirit but the executed business model is inherently flawed.

In order for it to succeed you have to rely on the businesses that add value to the location, but the structure of the model stacks the deck against those entities. So...it's failure is effectively a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Just combine it with your trip to Bass Pro.
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Old 06-29-2021, 01:38 PM   #239
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Ahhh....I dont know about that.

I think it actually might be closer to a 'Scam' than we're giving it credit for.

As I understand the Developer wanted to sell the Units to people who were then going to Lease those units to Businesses...rather than the businesses themselves.

The idea being that the Buyers' Investments would be appreciating while the Lease to the Businesses would be covering their monthly costs while the Developer and the Investors reap the benefits apparently, largely at the expense of the businesses themselves.

Its been a while since I've looked into all the details, but thats my recollection. Hence why I really DGAF about the trials and tribulations of New Horizons Mall.

It was a Real Estate game all along, and nothing the Developer of the Buyers did actually added any value and the costs being associated to the businesses was unlikely to make for a very profitable venture, so them getting screwed shall elicit no tears from me.

You're not going to make a lot of money at the Real Estate Game selling empty condos in the middle of F-All Nowhere. I think Real Estate professionals have a saying for this...something, something, Location?
I do not understand how this is a scam. What misinformation was given to the buyers? They knew the price and location.
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Old 06-29-2021, 02:24 PM   #240
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I do not understand how this is a scam. What misinformation was given to the buyers? They knew the price and location.
I dont know what else to say.

I've heard more credible Time-Share pitches than 'Business Condos in Balzac that cater to a niche market.'

If these people got all the information and did it anyways, thats perfectly standard Moral Hazard.

All I'm saying is that there is no way I'd buy what they were selling, and I'd imagine most people wouldnt either unless there were ancillary reasons.

It feels like either some pieces are missing here or they just happened to find a collection of people who would be inclined to make a questionable business decision.
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