[PGT] Leafs 4 Flames 1

[Har-Calgary]

I live and work in Toronto, this has not been a fun a week at the office. I'll be at the ACC on Dec.6th and we better win just so I can tell all my coworkers to eff off.

[Kybb79]

Some Leaf fan told me" I thought we had bad defence until we played Calgary".

[CroFlames]

Three worries:

1. Mike Smith can't keep up with the workload and performance tails in the 2nd half of the season, and/or postseason.
2. The defence is leaky. I don't know why, but it's leaky and it needs to be fixed. Perhaps the defensive system doesn't have buy in from the d-men, or they are just all having individual ruts at the same time.
3. Mike Smith feels like he's being left out to dry, and becomes angry/resentful at the fact that he's bailing out a supposedly good team night in and night out.

[Toonage]

nm

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Three worries:

1. Mike Smith can't keep up with the workload and performance tails in the 2nd half of the season, and/or postseason.
2. The defence is leaky. I don't know why, but it's leaky and it needs to be fixed. Perhaps the defensive system doesn't have buy in from the d-men, or they are just all having individual ruts at the same time.
3. Mike Smith feels like he's being left out to dry, and becomes angry/resentful at the fact that he's bailing out a supposedly good team night in and night out.

if it was #3, you'd already know. smith isn't shy about throwing teammates under the bus.

[djsFlames]

I damn well hope they redeem themselves after that one.

Toronto should not have been able to shut them down. They are pretty much the furthest things from a shut down team and yet they managed to do it which was sad. But the Flames know how to turn games into stinkers when they lose at home this season. They've got to be more competitive in losses at home cause it's pretty humiliating to be a fan the stands when things don't go their way and they just fizzle out or shoot themselves / allow egregious mistakes to snowball.

I'm willing to chalk it up to that dreaded 'first game after a road trip', but no excuse starting Thursday tbh. D-zone exits have got to be about 300% more efficient. Also would be nice if our guys could stay on their man and not lose them in the most dangerous areas of the ice.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

This team simply isn't very good outside of a couple players. I wonder how many coaches and goalies will have to come and go before more people realize it.

[OzSome]

Sorry I missed half of the first period last night. Was Jaromir Jagr in the lineup last night? I don't think I ever seen him play at all. I've seen Troy Brouwer playing with Jankowski an Bennett all night. I also thought I've only heard Stajan and Lazar's name once all night and it was on the 3rd period.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Some Leaf fan told me" I thought we had bad defence until we played Calgary".

They scored 4 goals...1 en and two bounced off Flames skaters

[devo22]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Sorry I missed half of the first period last night. Was Jaromir Jagr in the lineup last night?

no, he was a game-time decision with an injury and then was scratched.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

This team simply isn't very good outside of a couple players. I wonder how many coaches and goalies will have to come and go before more people realize it.

Do you think other NHL teams are made up of 23 star players?

Yes, the Flames have a few good players. A good GM finds bargain brand players to fill in the holes, and a good coach makes them all gel together.

With the personnel the GM provided to the coach, this team should be better than it is when you compare it to other NHL clubs. IMO, of course.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They scored 4 goals...1 en and two bounced off Flames skaters

And the other one took a weird ricochet off a leg into the slot and landed on Kadri's stick and he was in a prime shooting spot.

Leafs were obviously full credit for their win, but all three of their goals on Smith weren't clean. But hey, that's hockey.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by devo22

no, he was a game-time decision with an injury and then was scratched.

Thanks devo22.. that explains why Brouwer was playing with Janko and Bennett.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

This team simply isn't very good outside of a couple players. I wonder how many coaches and goalies will have to come and go before more people realize it.

What a weak take. Please elaborate.

The Flames absolutely have one of the better teams on paper and should be a top 10 team in the league.

The reason this is not a top team right now is due to the second pair and bottom 6. The Flames second pair was being sold like a second first pairing group and looking st Hamonic and Brodie over the past 4-5 years they absolutely had the potential to be that. Looking at the current third and fourth line there is a mix of former top 6 forwards and young up and coming rookies. Both the second pair and bottom 6 look lost and useless out there.

The team has a great top 2 lines, an elite first pairing, and solid number 1 Goalie. It is no surprise they are still in a playoff spot but if they want to get off the bubble and solidify themselves as a top team they need to get more from the areas that are struggling mightily

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

This team simply isn't very good outside of a couple players. I wonder how many coaches and goalies will have to come and go before more people realize it.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Tkachuk, Gio, Hamilton, Smith = all more than "good". Gaudreau is elite, the others are at least very good.

Frolik, Ferland, Jankowski, Brodie, Hamonic, Stone, Kulak = at least "good".

That's 2/3 of the team. Plus, there's still potential in Bennett, Brouwer is OK at his 4th line job and still has something left IMO, Jagr is Jagr, Rittich is an untested rookie. Versteeg has his nights where he is pretty good, too.

IMO Lazar doesn't hurt the team - he just can't produce for some reason. Stajan is Stajan - I think he hasn't really hurt the team either, but it's not a real positive contribution at this point.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

And the other one took a weird ricochet off a leg into the slot and landed on Kadri's stick and he was in a prime shooting spot.

Leafs were obviously full credit for their win, but all three of their goals on Smith weren't clean. But hey, that's hockey.

My point was the defence wasn't bad last night...the team just didn't generate much of anything. Their top players didn't do a whole lot either

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I damn well hope they redeem themselves after that one.

Toronto should not have been able to shut them down. They are pretty much the furthest things from a shut down team and yet they managed to do it which was sad. But the Flames know how to turn games into stinkers when they lose at home this season. They've got to be more competitive in losses at home cause it's pretty humiliating to be a fan the stands when things don't go their way and they just fizzle out or shoot themselves / allow egregious mistakes to snowball.

I'm willing to chalk it up to that dreaded 'first game after a road trip', but no excuse starting Thursday tbh. D-zone exits have got to be about 300% more efficient. Also would be nice if our guys could stay on their man and not lose them in the most dangerous areas of the ice.

They may not normally be a good defensive team but I thought they did a pretty good job last night.

I really thought last night came down to execution. They were just a little off all night, passing, positionally, skating. To me that's probably as good a spin as you can put on it because it's all correctable with effort.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Tkachuk, Gio, Hamilton, Smith = all more than "good". Gaudreau is elite, the others are at least very good.

Frolik, Ferland, Jankowski, Brodie, Hamonic, Stone, Kulak = at least "good".

That's 2/3 of the team. Plus, there's still potential in Bennett, Brouwer is OK at his 4th line job and still has something left IMO, Jagr is Jagr, Rittich is an untested rookie. Versteeg has his nights where he is pretty good, too.

IMO Lazar doesn't hurt the team - he just can't produce for some reason. Stajan is Stajan - I think he hasn't really hurt the team either, but it's not a real positive contribution at this point.

I think Gaudreau and Giordano are elite. Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund and Smith are good. Hamilton didn't look particularly great until he was with Giordano, and Brodie's play dropped off as soon as he left Gio's pairing. I like Hamilton and Brodie but neither have shown the capability to solidify their own pairing with any consistency or effectiveness. I keep hearing we're so good on paper, particularly our D, but it hasn't translated into sustained success. You see glimpses of it every so often, but are Hartley and Gulutzan to blame for the braindead decisions and defensive breakdowns from our D corps? There are nights where our defense looks among the worst in the league. I'm not dismissing coaching but when do you start taking a hard look at the on-ice personnel?

I won't bother dissecting the bottom six, that dead horse has been beaten all season long. I like Jankowski and he's going to be a good player in this league. Jagr is fun to have. Outside of that? Bennett is headed for bust territory like a cruise missile and the fourth line isn't worth the effort it would take to even talk about them.

We're an average team that will knock on the door of the playoffs and be the underdogs in nearly every single 7 game series. Good luck winning one with the way our D is playing and the non-existent offence from our bottom six.

[Enoch Root]

That was a truly painful game to sit and watch. The lack of passion, the lack of push-back, and the lack of adjustments, are driving me crazy.

Can't believe some people were criticizing Giordano - he is carrying the team (and Hamilton in particular) on his back right now. He works his ass off on every shift. Thank bloody hell for him.

I am curious about peoples' thoughts on Backlund. I thought that was the worst game I have ever seem him play. He was also awful in another game recently - Dallas I think? I don't know what is up with him, but I sure hope it isn't permanent.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That was a truly painful game to sit and watch. The lack of passion, the lack of push-back, and the lack of adjustments, are driving me crazy.

Can't believe some people were criticizing Giordano - he is carrying the team (and Hamilton in particular) on his back right now. He works his ass off on every shift. Thank bloody hell for him.

I am curious about peoples' thoughts on Backlund. I thought that was the worst game I have ever seem him play. He was also awful in another game recently - Dallas I think? I don't know what is up with him, but I sure hope it isn't permanent.

Well, Backlund led the team in CF% (as he usually does) with crap zone starts (as he usually does).