[PGT] Canucks 5 Flames 3

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Canucks score the 4th goal. They send out the Sedins, GG sends out our 4th line and third paring (Kulak-Bartowski). 30 seconds later, 5th goal and game over. So, yes, it is GG's fault. Even if you think he has a good system, the guy cannot manage a game.

Ya, ok man. All GG's fault. I get it

Lol

[Itse]

That actually is completely fair criticism IMO, for the whole coaching staf..

The coaches should absolutely avoid having the 3rd pairing out together with the 4th line, especially against the opposing top lines. That is definitely asking for trouble, and an inexcusably stupid thing to do at home.

[Toonage]

On a somewhat positive note, those mistakes the Flames made last night (players & coaches alike) would be hidden under a 4 goal cushion if they play like that on most nights. At least for the first 2 periods. Ultimately the big difference was the play of Markstrom. I really liked what I saw from the Flames in the first 2 periods. The 3rd looked like both teams were coming off a back to back.

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by Toonage

On a somewhat positive note, those mistakes the Flames made last night (players & coaches alike) would be hidden under a 4 goal cushion if they play like that on most nights. At least for the first 2 periods. Ultimately the big difference was the play of Markstrom. I really liked what I saw from the Flames in the first 2 periods. The 3rd looked like both teams were coming off a back to back.

Completely agree with you.
There was a lot of good to take from that game. I thought they played very well through the first 2. The Canucks were very opportunistic and I'm sure they were feeling very fortunate to leave Calgary with 2 points. There was also some mistakes that they hopefully learn from. Players, and coaches alike, but there will always be some mistakes.
Our PK has been very crappy and is really hurting us

Was wondering yesterday how Baertschi would look if he was still in our line up and was almost Missing him with our lack of depth scoring.
After watching him I was quickly reminded of how buttery soft he is. He gets knocked off the puck so easily and I am certain I don't miss him lol

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by ---Hatrick---

Ya, ok man. All GG's fault. I get it

Lol

Did I or you put out the lines? No, it was the coach.

Flames 4th line + 3rd pairing vs Sedins... Yeah, sounds like a smart thing to do.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

So I was there last night and saw a 3-3 game because I was still lined up to pee when the Canucks scored 4 and 5. So I saw a great game by the Flames. It's hard for me to be mad about it. Markstrom completely saved the Canucks. Not only were the shots one-sided, so were the chances, in a big way.

I kind of understand the fourth line v. the Sedins. GG was matching the second line against Horvat, and the first when that wasn't available. He was also trying to use the first line by getting them against the lower lines. So who do you match against the slow Sedins who weren't doing much? The third line that you want to get offensive play from or the fourth line who supposedly can at least play D (Brouwer and Lazar anyway).

I did think the push from the Flames at the end wasn't great. But at the end of the day this was just one of those games where they should have won but didn't. Match it up versus one of the ones early on that they should have lost but didn't.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Did I or you put out the lines? No, it was the coach.

Flames 4th line + 3rd pairing vs Sedins... Yeah, sounds like a smart thing to do.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

It actually does make sense when you consider how bad the Sedins have been this year. That was Henrik Sedin's first goal of the season and just his 5th point. They're basically the 3rd line for Vancouver now. If the 4th line can't handle those guys at this point in their career, then they all need to be benched.

They simply did not perform to a reasonable expectation for the 4th line. You don't have to create offense, but you have to take care of your own zone. They failed miserably because nobody covered on Kulak's pinch, which I'm sure he was given the green light to do in order to get back in the game.

Context, understanding, reasonability. If you have those you can see that Gulutzan didn't want to waste his best players on covering the Sedins. Backlund's line shut down the Horvat line most of the night quite well. Perhaps he could have utilized the 3rd line, but I would think that the veterans on the 4th line know what their job is at that point in the game and they've defended against offensive players before last night.

Second guess it if you must, find fault if you must, criticize if you must, but at least put some thought into it other than just "Gulutzan = bad".

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Did I or you put out the lines? No, it was the coach.

Flames 4th line + 3rd pairing vs Sedins... Yeah, sounds like a smart thing to do.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

All I'm saying is you are pin pointing that whole game down to that one shift.. which is absurd.
Take your blinders off man.
It's ok if you don't like GG. A lot of people have different opinions on him.
The Flames didn't win, and that's unfortunate. But they damn well played good enough to win that game more times than not.

And we re talking about that Sedin line like it is still a dominant line. They were almost invisible all game. They absolutely weren't the Canucks biggest threat last night.
Sure, maybe it would have been good to bounce back after that goal with the Backlund line, or Monahan line. I don't recall who was out there for the goal, but did you ever think that maybe they were the freshest line and the Backlund like and Monahan line needed a bit more of a breather?

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

It actually does make sense when you consider how bad the Sedins have been this year. That was Henrik Sedin's first goal of the season and just his 5th point. They're basically the 3rd line for Vancouver now. If the 4th line can't handle those guys at this point in their career, then they all need to be benched.

They simply did not perform to a reasonable expectation for the 4th line. You don't have to create offense, but you have to take care of your own zone. They failed miserably because nobody covered on Kulak's pinch, which I'm sure he was given the green light to do in order to get back in the game.

Context, understanding, reasonability. If you have those you can see that Gulutzan didn't want to waste his best players on covering the Sedins. Backlund's line shut down the Horvat line most of the night quite well. Perhaps he could have utilized the 3rd line, but I would think that the veterans on the 4th line know what their job is at that point in the game and they've defended against offensive players before last night.

Second guess it if you must, find fault if you must, criticize if you must, but at least put some thought into it other than just "Gulutzan = bad".

Thank you.
Very well put

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

If the 4th line can't handle those guys at this point in their career, then they all need to be benched.

Sounds like a solution to me.

[Poe969]

Didn't it happen right after a Vancouver PP? Wasn't the top line rested? I thought It was a great chance to put the top guys out there and get one back right away.

When you're at home and the other team scores to take the lead in the third period, I do everything I can to try and take the momentum back and get everyone into it again.

Even if for some reason GG wanted the fourth line out (who has to take a lot of blame for just not being good) then at least put out defenders who aren't playing as bad as the fourth line. I'd try to put out the best available guys to try and cover the warts of the fourth line.

The Flames did play a good game for the most part and GG wasn't a terribad coach for the most part but that was a crucial mistake IMO and it cost them a goal instead of possibly getting one back and that led to another loss.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And no passion

I just don't get this. How do you know he has no passion? Just because he doesn't act like an a-hole on the bench? He should be screaming at refs? Maybe smacking helmets on the bench?

Pretty sure the guy is passionate about his dream NHL coaching job. Once of 31 jobs like it in the world and all that.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

I just don't get this. How do you know he has no passion? Just because he doesn't act like an a-hole on the bench? He should be screaming at refs? Maybe smacking helmets on the bench?

Pretty sure the guy is passionate about his dream NHL coaching job. Once of 31 jobs like it in the world and all that.

Yes, you've nailed it
Jim Playfair had PASSION, I saw it live.

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Didn't it happen right after a Vancouver PP? Wasn't the top line rested? I thought It was a great chance to put the top guys out there and get one back right away.

When you're at home and the other team scores to take the lead in the third period, I do everything I can to try and take the momentum back and get everyone into it again.

Even if for some reason GG wanted the fourth line out (who has to take a lot of blame for just not being good) then at least put out defenders who aren't playing as bad as the fourth line. I'd try to put out the best available guys to try and cover the warts of the fourth line.

The Flames did play a good game for the most part and GG wasn't a terribad coach for the most part but that was a crucial mistake IMO and it cost them a goal instead of possibly getting one back and that led to another loss.

Yes, the fourth goal was on a PP.
Which means Kulak, and Bart were likely the freshest defenders

[Karl]

Some people in the GT thread were blaming Versteeg for the 3rd goal against. That's just wrong.

Versteeg did all he could tie up Dorsett's stick and he did just that. That 3rd goal against was on both Brodie & Smith. No one else.

As for the 5th goal against (4th line + 3rd D out there), however, I would put the blame on Versteeg with that one.

Why?

Because Versteeg had the best front row seat to see both Kulak and then Lazar go in there hard on the forecheck and then the puck came to his side where he was the high man who was in a position to get back to cover defensively but instead decided to keep drifting slowly in deeper to the offensive zone when he could've and should've read the play better and backed off there instead of doing what he did. That's why.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Familia

My mistake, let me try this again...

Sam Bennett is a high caliber player who has contributed immensely to the team this year. He has been instrumental in multiple wins and will have an outside shot of bringing home the Hart and Art Toss trophy this year. His trade value is sky high and he will be our franchise player for years to come. There will be a spot in the Saddledome rafters 15 years from now for his retired jersey.

This is not at all what I was implying, and you damn well know it. You will notice that I have not called out the several other posters in this thread for their over-the-top complaints, and the reason for that is that I also see them in the FOI on at least a semi-regular basis—with numerous points to make about more than just their irrational hatred for the Flames' coach or specific players.

Here is the thing: since this is a fan forum all sorts of emotions surrounding the Flames are going to be escalated—we get that. But if all a poster ever does is whine, it is going to get noticed. Without balancing that out in discussions about hockey, about individual players, about the day-to-day goings on of the team you can be sure that the nature of a poster's contributions are going to get noticed. You will see by just a quick perusal of the PGTs and other threads that there are PLENTY of highly critical posters with LOTS of fair criticism of players and coaches—we are not asking for members to be cheerleaders. But if all you have to offer is complaints? Well, then I think it is fair for us to wonder about your motivations for posting in the FOI.

There is that better? Have I been accepted by the CP police?

Also, do you stalk my posts and see how often I contribute?

Well, since I am a moderator it is kind of my job to, you know—"moderate."

And seriously? It takes all of a couple mouse-clicks to see anyone's recent post history. You posted in celebration in the Anaheim PGT. Prior to that you openly hoped for the Flames to move to Seattle after their opening night loss. But since then the Flames have won six games, and your only three other contributions in the FOI in that time are gripes about the team.

Like I said, this is certainly your right, but given the trend I think it is more than fair for others of us to openly question your motivation in the absence of any actual constructive conversation.

[CroFlames]

Textcritic to Familia

[Strange Brew]

Smackdown layeth.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Itse

That actually is completely fair criticism IMO, for the whole coaching staf..

The coaches should absolutely avoid having the 3rd pairing out together with the 4th line, especially against the opposing top lines. That is definitely asking for trouble, and an inexcusably stupid thing to do at home.

That part I don't get. I think GG does it because he hopes that one game they will break out, the flood gates open, and the depth we've all been talking about this summer finally starts to show itself. You can't break out of a funk unless you are actually playing.

But the Sedin's have feasted on the Flames for the past 15 years. Sure they are older and slower. But they still read each others freakin' minds and the goal last night showed it. Give them a chance, and they will likely bury it.

I honestly think that the team wants to be able to roll all 4 lines, 3 pairing and not miss a beat. But alas, we aren't the Red Wings of the 2000s where all 4 lines play the exact same and it doesn't matter who's on the other end. As much as I wish we did, we simply don't have the players to pull that off.

I don't have any issue with giving the bottom lines ice time. But you have to pick and choose your battles. After a PK and the top unit is rested, you just don't do that. Even the dumbest EA NHL player knows this. You play your top guys when they are rested.

I think GG does more good than bad overall. But it's just...frustrating at times to see.

Also the Brodie giveaway on goal 3 was just such an odd play. I honestly thought it was Wideman back there for a split second. Is Horvat really that fast? Reminded me of Brodie getting burned by McDavid in game 1. Just so odd he lost his like that.

[Split98]

Thought to myself 'not checking CP after THAT loss' last night... but it's my crack, and I popped in this morning. Honestly, with a loss to the Canucks... this has been a great PGT all things considered.

Hot goalie, mixed with some bone-headed moves contribute to the loss. We should win a game when we score 2+, but we had a few gaffs that made life a little more difficult.

Johnny had a hat-trick if not for Markstrom. What a game that kid had.

Jankowski looked so close. Bennett not so much... but he's on a line with Jankowski and Jagr. Hopefully the patience lasts a little longer. I can see J&J clicking, and Bennett being a part of a successful lineup could make all the difference. I'm grasping at optimism here, as last night was tough to watch. We know what this kid has, we know he's playing well below his talents - but the missing link isn't apparent yet.

Bartkowski needs to go, and I definitely agree with a lot on here that this is a problem GG needs to rectify. I don't think GG needs to be fired, is a terrible coach and is ruining the team - but this is a poor decision he should be avoiding.

4th line was a mess. If anything, Stajan seemed to be some stability on that line. I really like Lazar as a person, but he doesn't seem to mesh with whatever line he's on. Liked quite a few of his individual plays throughout the game, but that doesn't help much when he doesn't seem to work with his wingers. Strange, as I thought he had a decent hockey IQ. If I remember well enough, I really liked him with Tkachuk. Problem is, Tkachuk belongs on the 1-2 lines, and I'm hard-pressed to take anyone out of the top-6 for him.

Smith seemed a bit fragile after that tweak. I really hope he's given time to feel better before he plays again. Take advantage of our huge gaps between games as we're going to need him 100% when we start playing more regularly.

Definitely the best I've felt after a 5-3 loss... to the Canucks no less. Mistakes ended up in the back of our net, but that was definitely a game we outplayed the winning team. By a country mile IMO.