Kevin Spacey accused of attempted rape by Anthony Rapp when he was 14

[Jason14h]

But is it more,less, or equally as 'creepy' if it's a 18 year old male with a 40 year old women?

Does the look of the person in question matter? Is it less creepy if it is a 18 year old man who looks 25 and a 40 year old women who looks 30.

What if his birthday is really soon? At what age is it no longer creepy.

Is it divide by 2 and add 7 still? Can we get the official rules please!

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

This thread has veered wildly off course, so just quoting this so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. These allegations are far worse than the Spacey one (so far) His lawyer can deny them all he wants, but you don't have this many woman coming forward with stories about you if you've been a boy scout.

Ratner has always been a creep. I'll bet he's secretly proud these came out

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I hope these allegations give others cause to come forward and help root out this culture of sexual exploitation in Hollywood.

Better late than never but where the #### was this when Woody Allen married his daughter or Roman Polanski was raping 13 year olds. Those incidents happened a long time ago but both of them have been continually celebrated in Hollywood a ton since then. They’ve won Oscars. It’s disgusting that they were never called out on their BS. Always turning a blind eye.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

This thread has veered wildly off course, so just quoting this so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. These allegations are far worse than the Spacey one (so far) His lawyer can deny them all he wants, but you don't have this many woman coming forward with stories about you if you've been a boy scout.

His denials are being deflected pretty hard by people coming forward and either saying, yeah this happened, or that the actresses were talking about these incidents 10 years ago.

Not to be glib, but if i had the money I would start up a rehab facility for hollywood A stars because a lot of them are going to publicly come out crying crocodile tears and talking about going to get help and working on themselves.

Its the next line of defense, but right now there are so many people who are going to go to the level of toxic like Ratner and like Spacey that the Film and Television industries are going to have to fully separate itself from them.

[speede5]

First I think what Spacey did is gross and disgusting and he should be held accountable for his actions, whatever punishment that would be.

Second I don't think what Jagr did was criminal but it was kinda icky. But that's just my opinion and it's worth exactly 0.

We have to treat people as adults at some point and 18 seems fair, but at that age people are still maturing and making youthful mistakes. They may be easily taken advantage of, or they may try to take advantage not realizing the stupidity of their actions.

The difference in maturity between 14 and 18 is typically quite huge, so the rules should be different, but I rarely meet 18 yr olds on the same level as a 40 yr old. Heck 14 and 16 yr olds are rarely on the same level.

I'm terrible at these forum conversations, I just see things that are kinda off and have random thoughts about it. Like a 14 yr old is a child when it comes to decisions about sex but if he throws a rock off an overpass people want him tried as an adult. Or that at 18 you instantly go from innocent no control to being on your own fending for yourself.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I hope these allegations give others cause to come forward and help root out this culture of sexual exploitation in Hollywood.

Better late than never but where the #### was this when Woody Allen married his daughter or Roman Polanski was raping 13 year olds. Those incidents happened a long time ago but both of them have been continually celebrated in Hollywood a ton since then. They’ve won Oscars. It’s disgusting that they were never called out on their BS. Always turning a blind eye.

This didn't get called out because for the executives and powers that be, it was considered their divine right to take advantage of desperate actors and others. They laughed about it, and joked about it, and part of these power players images was based around their sexual virility.

At the same time the damn was the old "You'll never work in this town again" either for not agreeing to be assaulted or talking about it, and this is the prime example of the old boys network, while they may compete they protected this culture.

Like I said before, the media has to eat a big poop sandwich, they knew this was happening, and their response was probably, its not a story, its Brett being Brett, or Kevin being Kevin, and besides we need media access so don't piss the powerful off.

But once one crack opens in a damn, the foundation shifts and it breaks. While there will never be a true reformation, and Hollywood studios won't start having a VP of sexual safety on every movie set, at least we're going to see some justice.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Better late than never but where the #### was this when Woody Allen married his daughter

The adopted daughter of his long-term girlfriend, not actually his daughter legally, biologically or according to both Soon-Yi and Allen socially (backed by the fact that Allen never adopted Soon-Yi, unlike two other Farrows adopted children). That's a pretty huge difference. She was an adult by the time they started the affair and they've been together for something like 25 years now, which is about twice as long as Allens relationship with Soon-Yi:s adopted mother Mia Farrow.

Creepy and unusual? Absolutely.

But honestly I don't see how this is really anybody else's business, not at this point anyway.

Polanski? Fire away, that's just wrong.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And we've drawn the line at 18, so we're agreed.

I could be off-base, but based on some of these posts it seems to suggest that people think the age of consent is 18. It's 16 (and in some situations as low as 14) in all of Canada. Between 16-18 in the States (depending where you are) and as low as 14 in Europe.

Not arguing one way or another.

[calgaryblood]

Yeah very creepy but big difference from "marrying his daughter".

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Yeah very creepy but big difference from "marrying his daughter".

What about molesting his 7-year old daughter in 1992?

Dylan Farrow has accused him of sexual assault. In 1993 the Connecticut State Attorney prosecutor said that they had probably cause to charge him for it, but Dylan - then 8 - was too fragile to go through the trial. To this day she contends she was sexually assaulted by her adopted father Woody Allen.

Also Woody Allen's own quote "I'm 35 years older, and somehow, through no fault of mine or hers, the dynamic worked. I was paternal. She responded to someone paternal."

Kind of ruins the argument that he didn't believe himself to be paternal to her.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Let's be clear on Jagr here, the laws are very clear, and draw a line at 18. There is absolutely nothing against the law on that one, and I bet he's not the one preying (is my guess). They flock to Jagr.

As for the morality of it all, thats a different question. I think a lot of people with an adult developed brain wouldn't find that kind of interaction appealing, and possibly see it as taking advantage of the situation.

Both true for a lot of people. But this is black and white from a legal perspective, and likely black and white from the perspective of who is targeting who. I doubt Jagr is on the streets prowling for a very specific age group.

Spacey was going after underage children, was potentially in a position of power (in their careers to some degree), and was the one doing the prowling.

These are very, very, very different situations.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

Let's be clear on Jagr here, the laws are very clear, and draw a line at 18.

Not that I'm arguing one way or another, but no the law does not draw a line at 18. In the Czech Republic the age of consent is 15.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Didn't throw the word victim out, nor did I imply that it was illegal, but If a mid 40's guy doesn't understand why its is not appropriate to get with 18 year old's they need a swift kick upside the head.

Jagr is the victim here. He was preyed on for his fame. Whether or not Jagr should be sleeping with an 18 yr old is immaterial here. It's victim blaming.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think his point is that our definition of "grown adults" is arbitrary. Not only that but how strongly the pendulum swings. She's 17 and he's a sick rapist. She's 18 and he's awesome, high five bro!

If you can think of a better way to structure society I'd like to hear it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What about molesting his 7-year old daughter?

Dylan Farrow has accused him of sexual assault.

Also Woody Allen's own quote "I'm 35 years older, and somehow, through no fault of mine or hers, the dynamic worked. I was paternal. She responded to someone paternal."

Kind of ruins the argument that he didn't believe himself to be paternal to her.

He was tried and found not guilty of molesting the 7 year old. Honestly, no one knows what really happened, but likely Allen himself. However, you bringing it up as if it was fact that he molested the 7 year old isn't correct. Farrow also has a lot of reason to be upset and irrational here.

Merely because there is some kind of paternal aspect to a much older man dating a younger woman, that doesn't make it illegal. There is always going to be a strange dynamic between a couple when you have a 20+ year age difference. Woody Allen saying something awkward about it doesn't make it illegal or immoral.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Not that I'm arguing one way or another, but no the law does not draw a line at 18. In the Czech Republic the age of consent is 15.

Fair enough on that one and I should have read the thread closer. That makes for a more interesting societal debate between the different countries.

Ultimately I would think a guy like Jagr that has been so exposed to the North American culture, I would find it predatory behaviour if he was prowling for 15 year olds back home. He would be well aware of the scariness of what that behaviour means.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What about molesting his 7-year old daughter in 1992?

Dylan Farrow has accused him of sexual assault. In 1993 the Connecticut State Attorney prosecutor said that they had probably cause to charge him for it, but Dylan - then 8 - was too fragile to go through the trial. To this day she contends she was sexually assaulted by her adopted father Woody Allen.

Yeah, honestly I don't know and luckily I haven't had to thought about that. I tend to side on "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law", unless there's a really compelling reason to act differently. Woody Allen is kind of far away from where I'm standing.

If I was personally involved with him (through work or otherwise) I would probably consider my stand again.

Also Woody Allen's own quote "I'm 35 years older, and somehow, through no fault of mine or hers, the dynamic worked. I was paternal. She responded to someone paternal."

Kind of ruins the argument that he didn't believe himself to be paternal to her.

Granted, although let's be fair, a lot of people seek a maternal/paternal figure. There's nothing wrong with age difference as such.

I'm definitely not cool with it, but ultimately I still think especially at this point it's none of anyone else's business.

[RichKlit]

Wait am I missing something? Age of consent is as low as 14 in some places in Canada? So as in no matter the age difference as long as the child is 14 it's ok? That can't be right?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by blankall

He was tried and found not guilty of molesting the 7 year old.

He was not tried. Although your point stands in that he was never convicted of anything. Still when one daughter accuses him of rape, and he marries the other daughter (sorry, daughter of long-time girlfriend that he first met when she was 9 and considered himself paternal to) I think I can call him creepy and immoral and not have second thoughts about it. Not that it matters what I think.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

Wait am I missing something? Age of consent is as low as 14 in some places in Canada? So as in no matter the age difference as long as the child is 14 it's ok? That can't be right?

It hasn't been for a while.