I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think there's a need for Burke or ownership to step in and influence the hiring of the next coach. If Gulutzan doesn't work out it's something Treliving should learn from for the next hiring. The one year contract thing for Gulutzan is a little puzzling though. If you don't have the confidence to at least provide your new coach with a multiple year deal is that a sign he may not be the guy? Maybe Gulutzan got the job because his sales pitch was that he would take a one year deal show me deal to prove he would be worth a longer commitment after the first season? Either way I suppose it's a plus the GM could get a new head coach to sign on for a one year deal.

I honestly think that firing Hartley was a rash decision that came about when Boudreau came available. Using special teams and analytics was an easy excuse to fire Bob but when Boudreau signed with Minnesota, Treliving was caught with his pants down. He signed Gulutzan to a one year deal as an out in case things have gone exactly how they have, horribly. Which means that Gulutzan will last the year, regardless of how the team plays. Upper management can keep spouting "new systems, bad luck, etc." BS all they want but they are not going to fire Gulutzan for 2 reasons. One, they're not going to pay 2 guys to sit at home and not coach, and two, it will make Treliving look really really bad. The optics of firing his first coaching hire 20 games into the season reflects so terribly on the GM. Stuck with this lame duck coaching group for at least the year. Barring a monumental turnaround, this is a lost season for the club.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

I think the GM is to blame for some things. The players are to blame for some things and the coaching is to blame for some things. Not sure why people are arguing whether its the players, coach or GM that should be solely blamed. Some of the contracts on this team are ridiculous. Bouma, Bollig, Stajan, Smid, Wideman, Giordano, Monahan (probably should have been bridged). The team has no identity. We are pretty soft. No shutdown defenceman or defensive specialist arguably on the whole team, but definitely our top 4 is made up of offensive d-men and 2 way dmen like Gio. Our best young D prospects are skating offensive d-men not known for their physicality or defensive game. No one who is the go-to physical, battling defenceman that forwards hate playing against. I hope Hamilton can add more snarl as he has been recently and work on his defensive game more and become that player, but as of now we only have young offensive d-men trying to develop a defensive game and one 2 way dman in our top 4. We dont even have a player who I could call a #4 dman while keeping a straight face and not feeling like im being a homer or making a stretch. MAYBE Engelland but ideally he isnt a 4th dman.

I think the biggest need for this team is some more heart and soul, battling players. The coaching staff seem more interested in implementing a system and getting players to buy in as opposed to creating a system based on the strengths of the players we have. Gaudreau Monahan is literally one of the easiest lines top to defend in the NHL. Johnny is a mouse and Monahan is a 6'3 210lb slower skating player who never finishes a check or shows any real compete. You cant have 2 players who are so easy to hem into their own zone, unable to impose their will on a game 5v5. I see 2 guys who are out there, one is trying to deke through everyone and force passes and the other is basically 100% reliant on his elusive linemate making him a pass and him using his wrist shot in the slot. Not to mention we probably should have asked them to perform on different lines to see if they are capable of driving their own line - before handing out huge contracts based on 2-3 years of easy top line minutes, tons of PP time and and o-zone starts. You shouldnt give a contract like that out without knowing that a player can thrive without their bff and line mate they have taken 90% of their NHL shifts with.

Our best players have been Frolik, Backlund, Tkachuk, Engelland, Johnson. Our worst players have been Monahan Gio, Brodie, Gaudreau. There is something seriously wrong and I think it is foolish to put all the blame solely on GM, coaches or players. The blame can be shared. From BT handing out contracts like candy and building a team with no real identity or toughness, the rigid coaching systems and players not being able to perform as they are paid to.

Its not like our players all of a sudden suck. Its not like our GM is terrible. Or this coach is single handedly ruining the team. There have been some mistakes made and they need to be fixed by all 3 parties. I dont even think we need to fire anyone or make a trade. Just need to be honest about the team, how its built, how its coached, the true value and ability of our guys. We think we are a playoff team but we are a rebuilding team that is at the cap limit. I dont know who our best defenceman is. We have 2 young guys with tons of potential and an older guy in gio who we are hoping can play the way he did a few years ago - in a career year - for the next 6 years.

Its a big mess and it all stems from that one season we made the playoffs, won a series and instead of keeping our options open and being committed to the rebuild, we tried to do anything we could to be a playoff team.

[Locke]

Agreed! The Stocks at Center Ice!

No, seriously though, this looks like a good team. When I look at this roster I'm happy with it, its when I look at this team actually playing hockey I get disappointed.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So I guess it depends on whether or not you think the Flames are just a cruddy hockey team, or a hockey team that is better than they are playing.
If one believes the former, then yes, it is on the GM.

I believe that organizations that struggle consistently do so, in part, due to the fact that there isn't consistency at the top. GMs don't have the opportunity to build a team over the long-term. They are hired and fired too quickly.

Personally, I think BT is a good hockey mind, a hard worker and leaves no stone un-turned. I don't want to see him swapped out for some other guy and then we are starting from square 1 again.

Consistency please.

It's also hard to make any progress when the Flames are always changing coaches. What I feared the most with Gully is happening right now and by the time the team is confortable with the new system the playoffs will be out of reach

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Locke

Agreed! The Stocks at Center Ice!

No, seriously though, this looks like a good team. When I look at this roster I'm happy with it, its when I look at this team actually playing hockey I get disappointed.

The team is weak on the wings and I find it disappointing that none of our prospects took it to the next level in training camp. Versteeg and Chaisson are not the answer.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Dion

The team is weak on the wings and I find it disappointing that none of our prospects took it to the next level in training camp. Versteeg and Chaisson are not the answer.

Yeah the winger situation is terrible and it's part of the reason this team isn't yet ready to be a contender. I was really hoping Poirier could have panned out and while I'm not dismissing him as a future NHL player I don't see him as a top line winger.

[1qqaaz]

I'm assuming that Treliving is learning from his mistakes, and he's slowly becoming a better GM.

If we constantly swap out GMs, there won't much much continuity or improvement.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Dion

The team is weak on the wings and I find it disappointing that none of our prospects took it to the next level in training camp. Versteeg and Chaisson are not the answer.

I agree, but I feel that is kind of BT's fault. We have purchased Frolik and Brouwer at 4.3M and 4.5M. I really like both players, but I would not say either are impact players, and if we have just spent 8.8M on FA wingers, we should not be saying we are weak on the wings imo.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I agree, but I feel that is kind of BT's fault. We have purchased Frolik and Brouwer at 4.3M and 4.5M. I really like both players, but I would not say either are impact players, and if we have just spent 8.8M on FA wingers, we should not be saying we are weak on the wings imo.

Impact wingers unfortunately cost more than 4.5M if they are acquired in free agency.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I agree, but I feel that is kind of BT's fault. We have purchased Frolik and Brouwer at 4.3M and 4.5M. I really like both players, but I would not say either are impact players, and if we have just spent 8.8M on FA wingers, we should not be saying we are weak on the wings imo.

Well the alternative is to sign a guy like Okposo to a 7 year, $42 million contract and I'm not sure that's worth it for a guy that has actually scored pretty well the same amount of goals as Brouwer over the last three years.

[Machiavelli]

I wasn't in love with the Brouwer signing, but he and Frolik are playing better than Gaudreau/Monahan, so I don't see how their contracts are a problem.

[FlamesAddiction]

I loved the Frolik and Brouwer signings (both were number 1 on my wishlist going into the offseason). I didn't like the Hamilton deal all that much. The Elliott deal was ok.

Really, the only thing I hated though was the coaching change. Not every GM is going to knock them out of the park all the time, so in general I am satisfied with him. I wouldn't give him up for an unknown at this point anyway.

[FlamesAddiction]

nm: Double Post

[Hot_Flatus]

It's unfortunate because B.T. was dealt a pretty lame hand that was created by an absolute farce of a managerial team in Jay Feaster and John Weisbrod. It's only now we are truly seeing how awful a drafting strategy it is to ignore size/physical attributes almost exclusively for several drafts and focus solely on hockey I.Q. - a few prospects didn't pan out and the rest are simply not capable at the pro level.

B.T. has done an admirable job in trying to patch the holes but like others have mentioned, until you are able to plug actual NHL players into the slots that are currently filled by Chiasson, Versteeg and to a lesser extent Wideman, you're going to see a team that struggles to compete every night. Tkachuk/Bennett are a great start but the Flames need at least another similar player in order to balance out the roster that contains more than a few 'softer' players in crucial positions.

If he is unable to adjust on the fly and make some shrewd moves this year and into next season, I would say he is fair game to start taking some heat for this. By next season you'd have to expect to start to see some serious improvement overall from this club.

[polak]

I'm not giving BT credit for drafting Bennett and Tkachuk. Easiest picks imaginable considering both players were expected to go higher and fell into BT's lap.

[CliffFletcher]

Yeah, it's too soon to make any assessment of Treliving's draft record. Bennett and Tkachuk were no-brainers. The proof is in how the 2nd and 3rd rounders turn out, and at this point they aren't exactly looking like home runs.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

I think the GM is to blame for some things. The players are to blame for some things and the coaching is to blame for some things. Not sure why people are arguing whether its the players, coach or GM that should be solely blamed. Some of the contracts on this team are ridiculous. Bouma, Bollig, Stajan, Smid, Wideman, Giordano, Monahan (probably should have been bridged). The team has no identity. We are pretty soft. No shutdown defenceman or defensive specialist arguably on the whole team, but definitely our top 4 is made up of offensive d-men and 2 way dmen like Gio. Our best young D prospects are skating offensive d-men not known for their physicality or defensive game. No one who is the go-to physical, battling defenceman that forwards hate playing against. I hope Hamilton can add more snarl as he has been recently and work on his defensive game more and become that player, but as of now we only have young offensive d-men trying to develop a defensive game and one 2 way dman in our top 4. We dont even have a player who I could call a #4 dman while keeping a straight face and not feeling like im being a homer or making a stretch. MAYBE Engelland but ideally he isnt a 4th dman.

I think the biggest need for this team is some more heart and soul, battling players. The coaching staff seem more interested in implementing a system and getting players to buy in as opposed to creating a system based on the strengths of the players we have. Gaudreau Monahan is literally one of the easiest lines top to defend in the NHL. Johnny is a mouse and Monahan is a 6'3 210lb slower skating player who never finishes a check or shows any real compete. You cant have 2 players who are so easy to hem into their own zone, unable to impose their will on a game 5v5. I see 2 guys who are out there, one is trying to deke through everyone and force passes and the other is basically 100% reliant on his elusive linemate making him a pass and him using his wrist shot in the slot. Not to mention we probably should have asked them to perform on different lines to see if they are capable of driving their own line - before handing out huge contracts based on 2-3 years of easy top line minutes, tons of PP time and and o-zone starts. You shouldnt give a contract like that out without knowing that a player can thrive without their bff and line mate they have taken 90% of their NHL shifts with.

Our best players have been Frolik, Backlund, Tkachuk, Engelland, Johnson. Our worst players have been Monahan Gio, Brodie, Gaudreau. There is something seriously wrong and I think it is foolish to put all the blame solely on GM, coaches or players. The blame can be shared. From BT handing out contracts like candy and building a team with no real identity or toughness, the rigid coaching systems and players not being able to perform as they are paid to.

Its not like our players all of a sudden suck. Its not like our GM is terrible. Or this coach is single handedly ruining the team. There have been some mistakes made and they need to be fixed by all 3 parties. I dont even think we need to fire anyone or make a trade. Just need to be honest about the team, how its built, how its coached, the true value and ability of our guys. We think we are a playoff team but we are a rebuilding team that is at the cap limit. I dont know who our best defenceman is. We have 2 young guys with tons of potential and an older guy in gio who we are hoping can play the way he did a few years ago - in a career year - for the next 6 years.

Its a big mess and it all stems from that one season we made the playoffs, won a series and instead of keeping our options open and being committed to the rebuild, we tried to do anything we could to be a playoff team.

All sorts of truth in here. We're suffering from the same heightened expectations that burdened the organization post 2004. Too bad they didn't learn from that and just stay the course and improve organically instead of forcing things in UFA and deciding what the core should be after one lucky season. Trading Giordano for a haul post 14/15 was the big tough decision that needed to be made but the team was misjudged as 'ready'. Now we're going to waste Gio's last productive years on bad teams while hoping our young players can 'grow' into their massive contracts... just in time for Gio to become a true anchor contract. BT should've shopped Hudler hard in after the 14/15 year as well, just like any true rebuilding team would've done.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah the winger situation is terrible and it's part of the reason this team isn't yet ready to be a contender. I was really hoping Poirier could have panned out and while I'm not dismissing him as a future NHL player I don't see him as a top line winger.

Though it doesn't help so much this season, at least you have Klimchuk, Shinkaruk and Mangiapane as potential wingers, in addition to Poirier.

As well, given the age of Backlund, Monahan and Bennett, I don't think the Flames are going to keep Jankowski in the AHL forever, and he will likely come up as a winger on this team (unless he ends up displacing a center if he does well enough). That's 4 kicks at the can at least to find something that works on that top line moving forward, though yeah.. it doesn't help much at the moment.

Edit: I forgot about Pribyl too - and that is likely a 'this year' potential, so there's that.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Dion

The team is weak on the wings and I find it disappointing that none of our prospects took it to the next level in training camp. Versteeg and Chaisson are not the answer.

we should have made cap space to bring in Okposo.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

we should have made cap space to bring in Okposo.

Most NYI fans were happy that Snow didn't sign him to that contract. He is doing fairly well in Buffalo, but I am glad the Flames didn't sign him to that either. 7 years @6 million is a large contract.