[PGT] St. Louis 6 - Calgary 4 - Page 12 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go_Flames4ever · 10-23-2016, 03:17 AM

Oh and I really wish Monahan would chop off that mullet. Maybe that's why he's been playing so Oileresque...

Barnet Flame · 10-23-2016, 06:37 AM

Johnson had a far superior game than Allen. None of the goals were on him. We are playing 1980s style defence and even though we scored 4, our forwards are looking terrible.

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Flamenfame · 10-23-2016, 07:29 AM

The Forwards are not helping out the defence whatsoever. Till this changes nothing else will.

Super-Rye · 10-23-2016, 07:35 AM

The Flames problem is they're a terribly slow team, and not just foot speed either. They're slow at moving the puck around and setting things up. When they do get setup they usually go for one pass too many or bank a shot off someone's shinpads, it's infuriating.

They could use a winger or 2 who can skate to stretch the ice out a bit and give puck carriers a little extra time and space. That might help them turnover the puck less.

If they moved the puck more precisely and with more urgency that would probably help their crappy power play and help the team keep momentum. The PP is just way too big of a momentum killer right now.

Also, if they decided to stop dropping the puck back in the neutral zone that would be amazing. Good teams attack the blueline with speed and numbers. The Flames like to drop the puck back and have 1 guy attack with speed while 3-4 guys stand on the blueline, clogging up all but 1 or 2 seams for the puck carrier to get though. It's dumb. They've done it for a few years now and it needs to stop.

Sylvanfan · 10-23-2016, 07:39 AM

Giordano was particularly awful in the second period. He already looks like he can't keep up anymore.

transplant99 · 10-23-2016, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Nope. Too many key guys showing the same problems. Player utilization falls to the coach. The best players are out of sync and trying too hard. Not being utilized properly. Special teams are terrible. Faceoffs are terrible. Each game the mid-game adjustments have favored our opponents rather than the good guys.

Coaching affects all of that. Blaming the players is letting the coach and GM off easy.

Interesting in that I see it completely the opposite.

Blaming coaching is the easy way out...looking your "franchise" players square in the eye and saying they completely suck right now seems like the harder avenue to take. Yet there is no doubt that is what should be happening.

IMO it's really simple. When your best players both up front and on D, nevermind in the crease, aren't heads and shoulders better than the rest of your team, then you are going to see what we are seeing. Gaudreau is a tire fire right now. He clearly has felt the pressure of the long and difficult negotiation of the summer and is trying WAY to hard to do things himself. Monahan isn't far behind. On defense both Gio and Brodie have been horrendous in decision making, while Elliot has been awful.

Going to be a very very long season if everyone of those guys don't get it figured out.

killer_carlson · 10-23-2016, 07:52 AM

When all of your core (save Backlund) are each showing the same problem, then something is messing with all of their heads.

If it was 2 or even 3 of them, i'd agree. But when it's all of the top 6 and all of the top 4 on the blue line, then it's something else.

transplant99 · 10-23-2016, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

When all of your core (save Backlund) are each showing the same problem, then something is messing with all of their heads.

If it was 2 or even 3 of them, i'd agree. But when it's all of the top 6 and all of the top 4 on the blue line, then it's something else.

Yep...its a new coach/system. They aren't adapting to it, and IMO that's on them. They are still stuck trying to play Hartley's.

Other guys have made the transition successfully, but those with the biggest paycheques simply have refused to thus far. I think that is evident when i look at Gulutzan and company behind the bench. The frustration on their faces is clear game after game.

I dont know if Gulutzan and what he is trying to instill is any good or not, but it's clear to me that the most important guys that need to at least give it a chance to work....aren't.

keenan87 · 10-23-2016, 08:10 AM

How long until we start to question Giordano's leadership abilities? Two straight years of crappy starts and the one year we did make it to the second round, he was injured.

Just because someone is a leader doesn't mean they are a good leader. As crazy as this sounds, I think we should look at trading Giordano.. maybe in a deal around Trouba. We get younger and I am a bit worried about Giordano keeping up his play for 5 more years.

CliffFletcher · 10-23-2016, 08:17 AM

Gio was a good captain when he was the best player on a very young team. Now that some of the core are a little older and are stars in their own right, I doubt he has nearly as much influence on the team. Sadly, that's the way the NHL has gone - young stars no longer listen to veterans unless those veterans are the best players on the team. So unless you're lucky enough to have a Toews or Crosby or Bergeron, you can't rely on veteran leaders to right the ship. Hard-ass coaches seem to be the only way to rein in the egos of star players today, and even that only lasts a couple seasons.

edslunch · 10-23-2016, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is what Glen is looking at on his notepad, the Gulutzan X's and O's. He has almost figured out how to get 3 in a row.

That's strange. He can line up four in a row on PP entries.

heep223 · 10-23-2016, 08:44 AM

The one thing that's for sure 95% attributed to coaching is special teams.

The power play looks terrible and they're not making adjustments. To me it smells like ego - instead of changing what's not working, they're still trying to ram it down the player's throats because "process".

If they had even 1 PPG last night the game would have been tied.

Seriously fire whoever is in charge of the PP immediately or at least scrap the current plan and try something completely new.

kyuss275 · 10-23-2016, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

When all of your core (save Backlund) are each showing the same problem, then something is messing with all of their heads.

If it was 2 or even 3 of them, i'd agree. But when it's all of the top 6 and all of the top 4 on the blue line, then it's something else.

Frolik and Brouwer are not showing the same problems. I hate to say it, but our good d-men on "paper" have not been good for quite some time. Hamilton seems to have a hard time grasping anything new. While i love Gio, i would look into trying to trade him this summer. I never thought his contract was going to hurt the flames because of the 2020 CBA. I'm starting to think Gio will be more of a 2nd pairing d-man sooner than later. Can't be paying $6.75 million for a 2nd pairing d-man.

This coaching staff is not working, but neither was the last coaching staff. Yes Haretly system was more entertaining , but the same problems have come up on the past 2 systems.

Truthfully i am not sure there is anything to do, but ride it out for the season. I don't think ownership will want to pay 2 coaches not to coach the team. Also is there really anybody available? No Hartely does not count.

Maybe a trade, but they are very hard to do mid season. Right now the vultures are circling, and no chance they are offering up fair deals.

taxbuster · 10-23-2016, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFR

Apparently I'm in the minority here based on the game thread but I actually thought Bennett was one of the Flames' best players tonight. 5 hits, 2 assists, over 50% on the face off for, and a plus player in a losing game is pretty good, IMO. He's also taking a lot harder match ups this year. Do I think he needs to be better? Absolutey. But tonight was a good step forward.

I don't entirely disagree, but tonight he was too easily pushed off the puck and didn't seem to have the compete level (or the desire?) to push back. He looked softer than he has.

Having said that - he wasn't the only guy in that boat.

Erick Estrada · 10-23-2016, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keenan87

How long until we start to question Giordano's leadership abilities? Two straight years of crappy starts and the one year we did make it to the second round, he was injured.

Just because someone is a leader doesn't mean they are a good leader. As crazy as this sounds, I think we should look at trading Giordano.. maybe in a deal around Trouba. We get younger and I am a bit worried about Giordano keeping up his play for 5 more years.

I've been down for trading Gio since the day he signed that deal. He's getting paid big dollars until he's 39 and this is as good as he's going to be for the rest of this contract which is frightening. They waited far too long with Iginla but this is the time to move him before it's too late as he may be untradable in another year.

Zarley · 10-23-2016, 10:11 AM

At least Wideman looked okay last night. That's a positive.

Saint Troy · 10-23-2016, 10:40 AM

Zero defensive structure, with high paid forwards that can't score....we're the Oilers...

CroFlames · 10-23-2016, 10:54 AM

I would just like to politely remind everyone saying this is the worst Flames hockey they've ever seen that is completely not true.

I distinctly remember going to games in the late 90s where the Flames literally could not pass the puck. It was a disaster.

automaton 3 · 10-23-2016, 11:09 AM

The young guns era was pretty terrible. But those were teams constructed "on the cheap" with a loose collection of other team's cast offs and Flames youth.

I personally didn't expect them to be very good.

This team is full of talented players and is hard against the salary cap. I expect more from them.

As it stands, it feels like the team is headed towards a wasted year.

Hockey_Ninja · 10-23-2016, 11:11 AM

My new Avatar sums everything up perfectly