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Old 06-25-2015, 09:23 AM   #221
Badgers Nose
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I have always been one of the big Gio fans, dating to when I thought he wasn't getting a fair chance under Daryl.

But I would explore trading him. If Hudler is tradable at his peak, why not Gio? And his contract is a steal.

The return would be gargantuan, including perhaps a top 4 d man who is younger.

Gio for Hamilton and Boston's first in 2016? Maybe more?
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:24 AM   #222
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Do not want to be paying a 40 year old $7 million. Considerable risk to the organization in that situation.
except the cap should be super high when he turns 40.

Two World Cups!
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:38 AM   #223
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There's absolutely no rush to get this done over the summer unless Winters puts in a self imposed deadline that they won't talk extension during the season, and I don't see that happening, Gio is a high character guy.

I think we're tilting at windmills, even if this is true, and we don't know that, its the opening position. Gio and Winter's are smart enough to know that there's going to be an exchange of term for dollars if he truly has a desire to stay here for the year.

I don't doubt that he's going to be paid in the upper realm of players in this league, but my gut tells me that its a 8 and 5 deal.

And I don't mind that at all.

if it does come down to a trade, it probably extends the rebuild by a couple of years, but the assets that come back would be formidable.
Completely disagree.

You want the contract done prior to the start of the season so that it doesn't hang over the club, the player and the team during the season. You need as much time as possible to get maximum return if you're going to trade him, and you can't have him holding the organization hostage during the season only to be injured when you feel like you should trade him.

Trading Giordano speeds up the rebuild, it doesn't delay it.

For Giordano, you get back at least one formidable young building block in the same age and skill range as your current core group.

Calgary is desperate right now for that, and I think if it is left unaddressed this season, you're staring down the barrel of not getting the most out of this core group.

I look at Anaheim and drool. 3 Defenders under 23 playing 20 mins per night on a cup contender.

If Calgary is going to get the most out of Monahan/Bennett/Gaudreau, they're going to need that kind of supporting cast on the backend and right now that's only Brodie with nothing coming up after him, and you can't wait 2 or 3 years for it to happen on it's own.

That's why I think Calgary was rumoured to be in on Tyler Myers. They've identified their #1 organizational need: young, top end, defenders.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:40 AM   #224
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except the cap should be super high when he turns 40.

Two World Cups!
The cap would have to double in those years to justify paying a 39/40 year old player 7 million dollars.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:44 AM   #225
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Trade Giordano? This is not the right time for that. Who will take over his leadership?

He's a force to be dealt with and unless you can get an insane return for him don't even listen to offers. Gio is a late bloomer and has plenty of years left. Shouldn't look at trading him for at least 2 more years. By then Monahan will be ready to take over captaincy.
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:11 AM   #226
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Trade Giordano? This is not the right time for that. Who will take over his leadership?

He's a force to be dealt with and unless you can get an insane return for him don't even listen to offers. Gio is a late bloomer and has plenty of years left. Shouldn't look at trading him for at least 2 more years. By then Monahan will be ready to take over captaincy.
Jiri Hudler. That is all.
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:14 AM   #227
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For comparison in the 05/06 season Jarome Iginla made $7M which was close to the league maximum and 18% of the $39M salary cap. Today that would be a $12.8M salary.

Iginla was the best player in the league at the time but Gio is top 15 and deserves a high salary. Getting him at $9M is starting to look like a steal.
*shakes head*

9 million? Only if he wants a 3 year contract! Even then, I'm inclined to make it 8 million at most.

Gio at 9 million is in no way a steal.
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:16 AM   #228
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Gio at 9 million hurt half the time is going to look terrible.

Front loaded with a 7.5 AAV is what I want.
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:42 AM   #229
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Contracts I wouldn't mind:

2 years @ $9.5 - 10M
3 years @ $8.5 - 9M
4 years @ $7.5 - 8M
5 years @ $7 - 7.5M
6 years @ $6 - 6.5M
7 years @ $5.5 - 6M
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:01 PM   #230
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For comparison in the 05/06 season Jarome Iginla made $7M which was close to the league maximum and 18% of the $39M salary cap. Today that would be a $12.8M salary.

Iginla was the best player in the league at the time but Gio is top 15 and deserves a high salary. Getting him at $9M is starting to look like a steal.
In 05/06 Iginla was 19th in goals scored, and 54th in points. How was he the best player in the league that year?
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:17 PM   #231
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In 05/06 Iginla was 19th in goals scored, and 54th in points. How was he the best player in the league that year?
He was arguably the best 2-way player in the league that season, captaining the Jennings trophy winning North West Division champions. He had captained his team to within 1 win of the Stanley cup just a season prior, a season where he had scored 41 goals at the height of the dead puck era.

If he wasn't the best player in the league, he was top 3.

Wait, were you being sarcastic?
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:57 PM   #232
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How about 1 yr 14 million with a hand shake deal that he signs a 3 yr 18 million deal or 4yrs 20 million the year after.

He gets 4 yrs 32 million dollars and we get a 6 million cap hit for the years that matter.

And if he balks at signing the 2nd deal you could still trade him in his 14 million dollar year retaining 50%
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:01 PM   #233
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He was arguably the best 2-way player in the league that season, captaining the Jennings trophy winning North West Division champions. He had captained his team to within 1 win of the Stanley cup just a season prior, a season where he had scored 41 goals at the height of the dead puck era.

If he wasn't the best player in the league, he was top 3.

Wait, were you being sarcastic?

Don't get me wrong here, and let me preface this by saying Iggy is my favorite player. But Iggy was never in any conversation about being the best two-way guy.

He is and was very offensively gifted, a great leader, and very, very tough. His defensive game left something to be desired. And that's not a knock on him. Different players have different roles, and rarely are wingers your top "2-way" guy.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:26 PM   #234
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Don't get me wrong here, and let me preface this by saying Iggy is my favorite player. But Iggy was never in any conversation about being the best two-way guy.

He is and was very offensively gifted, a great leader, and very, very tough. His defensive game left something to be desired. And that's not a knock on him. Different players have different roles, and rarely are wingers your top "2-way" guy.
I disagree. For a couple years there, 03/04 and 05/06, Iginla was one of the best two way players in the game (best overall player in hockey during that stretch IMO). I think he could've scored a ton more points in both seasons, but Sutter had him playing the way he wanted, almost perfectly. He was a beastly power forward who fore checked and back checked relentlessly, he was hound on the puck and chased it into all the dirty areas. As soon as Sutter stopped being the coach and traded for Tanguay, everything slowly changed. Iginla became more of a one dimensional sniper every season after that to point where he was basically a cherry picker at the end. I love the guy, but it was sad to see that deterioration in his game, though a great deal of it was due to his ageing. Can't help but wonder what would have been if Darryl stayed behind the bench though the 08/09 season and just hired some AGMs to help him with the front office instead of sacrificing the coaching title. That 06/07 team in particular was just wasted under Playfair, that's really when Iginla's game started to change.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:58 PM   #235
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The best players in the league should be commanding salaries close to the maximum allowed. Giordano is not a $12-14M player but he is good enough that $9M seems a little low.

Also, I was just stating what the Flames captain made back in 05/06 compared to what the current captain could be making, I didn't mean to start an Iginla debate. I know 100% of CP will never agree on anything but I thought Jarome Iginla being the best player in the league during the mid 2000s was a commonly shared opinion here.
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:24 PM   #236
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Trade Giordano? This is not the right time for that. Who will take over his leadership?

He's a force to be dealt with and unless you can get an insane return for him don't even listen to offers. Gio is a late bloomer and has plenty of years left. Shouldn't look at trading him for at least 2 more years. By then Monahan will be ready to take over captaincy.
I think the Flames proved they are capable of playing well without him. I'm not saying trade him but it is worth exploring if negotiations don't go smooth.
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:34 PM   #237
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He was arguably the best 2-way player in the league that season, captaining the Jennings trophy winning North West Division champions. He had captained his team to within 1 win of the Stanley cup just a season prior, a season where he had scored 41 goals at the height of the dead puck era.

If he wasn't the best player in the league, he was top 3.

Wait, were you being sarcastic?
Wait are you talking about IGGY!?!?!?!?!?!?!

He was and is still a monster offensively but he was never great in his own end (partly because he wasn't back there)
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:40 PM   #238
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Trade Giordano? This is not the right time for that. Who will take over his leadership?

He's a force to be dealt with and unless you can get an insane return for him don't even listen to offers. Gio is a late bloomer and has plenty of years left. Shouldn't look at trading him for at least 2 more years. By then Monahan will be ready to take over captaincy.
I don't want to under estimate Gio's leadership, but ultimately, if and when this team is ready to contend for a cup, the leadership mantle should be passed on to Monahan and Bennett, and if those two are not capable of learning and replicating the environment that Gio has created, then the Flames are in big trouble.

Leadership has to come from the core and as Gio ages, he's not going to be part of that core. In 89, McDonald was the captain and the assistants were Peplinski and Hunter, and on most nights in the playoffs, only 1 of those 3 guys got into the lineup. The real leadership came from the core players in Gilmour, Nieuwendyk, MacInnis, Vernon, etc.

The same goes for Hudler, Gaudreau and Monahan will have to learn to succeed without him because he's not going to be as effective or around when the team is ready to contend.

The young core has to learn to succeed without the veterans who guided them when they entered the league. They have to become those leaders.

You say trade Giordano in 2 years time, when he is 2 years older and locked up on a big ticket contract. If his game has deteriorated at all, then you could be stuck with that contract which will severly hamper your ability to sign the core or add pieces to the team.

I'm not saying you have to trade him now, but I think Treliving has to be real careful on the term and money he gives Giordano and if it doesn't work for Gio's camp, then Treliving has to seriously explore the trade option.
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:44 PM   #239
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I am not understanding the Gio trade talk. Of all the veteran leaders on the team he is the most untouchable.

Yes the Flames are still rebuilding in that they will not not trade rookies or draft picks for veterans and they will try to unload expiring contracts for picks, however the stage of the rebuild where you gut the team of top players has already occurred. Unless you are the Oilers it should not need to happen again.

Gio is a core member of the team who is clearly happy to take a home town discount to stay. Just get him locked up as soon as possible. Sure a shorter term deal would be safer but if it takes a longer term offer to get it done I am all for it.
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:48 PM   #240
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I am not understanding the Gio trade talk. Of all the veteran leaders on the team he is the most untouchable.

Yes the Flames are still rebuilding in that they will not not trade rookies or draft picks for veterans and they will try to unload expiring contracts for picks, however the stage of the rebuild where you gut the team of top players has already occurred. Unless you are the Oilers it should not need to happen again.

Gio is a core member of the team who is clearly happy to take a home town discount to stay. Just get him locked up as soon as possible. Sure a shorter term deal would be safer but if it takes a longer term offer to get it done I am all for it.
First Bold - He'll be a UFA this time next year, simple as that
Second Bold - He just opened negotiations at nine million dollars.
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