YLYL Thread Sexism Discussion (split from Gay Teen thread).

[photon]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

EDIT: Is being "out of thanks" a thing?

There's a limited # per 24 hour period. Or if your email address isn't verified it won't work either.

Originally Posted by Dion

When you say anonymous does this also mean the mod team won't be peeking to see the usernames behind the votes?

I'm not even sure the information is available in the database behind the scenes.

Originally Posted by Dion

Can we expect from now on that posters will follow the rules.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, *wipes tear*.

Just getting pics with visible nipples to not be posted seemed a lot harder than it should have been.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by photon

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, *wipes tear*.

Just getting pics with visible nipples to not be posted seemed a lot harder than it should have been.

Couldn't resist...

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by photon

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, *wipes tear*.

Just getting pics with visible nipples to not be posted seemed a lot harder than it should have been.

The work you do is appreciated.

[photon]

Never thought nipple filter would be one of my duties lol

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

.

7/10 would bang. Like the jaw line and the lips, pecs not big enough for me though. Could go either way on the nipples.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Could go either way on the nipples.

You could break a tooth on those things...

[Shnabdabber]

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

You know, perhaps we should fight fire with fire. Perhaps I start posting penis shots in every thread, whether it fits the topic or not, just cause I'm a hot blooded woman that likes a nice penis. It's totally natural. I am sure it's even scientific. So, why am I and the other ladies not doing that?

The urge to take this out of context and turn into a sig is staggering.

Seriously though I'm sorry to hear you actually had a business meeting at a freaking hooters. What, was the stripper bar closed? Troutman hit the nail on the head, treat women like they could be your mother or sister.

BTW the YLYL thread is like having a giant wank bank, except instead of keeping it to yourself people congregate there and organize a circle jerk. Slightly off putting.

[gargamel]

I haven't been in that thread for months, but I voted to keep it so that all of the discussion of attractive women can go in there instead of being spread throughout the forum. I don't see anything wrong with women who choose to pose for sexy photos or guys who like to check them out and discuss them, but I can see why it would make our female and homosexual posters uncomfortable when it pops up in the funny photo thread, post-game threads, and random other places around the forum.

Leave the YLYL thread as is, but be a little more serious about keeping that stuff contained to that thread.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by photon

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, *wipes ****.

Just getting pics with visible nipples to not be posted seemed a lot harder than it should have been.

Fixed that for you.

[The Yen Man]

I voted to keep it as is. I myself hardly ever go in that thread, but I just don't like the idea of over moderating the forum for every little thing. The thread title pretty clearly states what the thread is for (although I still think "you love, you lose" is a pretty dumb title lol).

Not all threads are interesting to everyone. If they made a breadmaking thread, I wouldn't go in it, but I wouldn't be up in arms getting it banned for it not being inclusive to us non bread makers.

[Tinordi]

The appeal to nature logical fallacy...

[littlereddevil]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

I already stated that happened in that very thread and people flipped out so

And???????

Who cares? If they don't like that, they could stop contributing to the thread. Not that difficult to ignore a couple of shirtless men, in fact maybe it'll motivate some to get to the gym more often.

Now obviously if it is to continue, stricter moderating of it would be needed. Which is where I think that the best solution is a middle ground. Make it more inclusive for both genders, and then cut out all the rape culture crap. If I wanted to read comments like that, I could just go to to 4Chan or Twitter and read the comments on the average hashtag criticizing feminism.

Again, I think this has already been stated a few times, but there is nothing wrong with appreciating beauty. I just think that appreciating it and posting about it comes with certain limitations.

Finally, if more people were to contribute to that thread, then I think it'd feel more inclusive. I feel like the majority of people are not posting out of fear of rebuttal, or being shamed.

[Ex libris]

As one of the women on this site, I guess I should voice my opinion - although others have explained it much better than I could.

Like the post above says, there is nothing wrong with appreciating beauty - and so I have no issues with the idea of the YLYL thread. It's the objectifying comments/attitudes that some posters have that is so infuriating. And those comments/attitudes do show up in other threads.

I usually feel very welcome in this forum (although I rarely post, I do visit several time a day), but there are times when the sexist comments/attitude makes me feel very unwelcome.

Also, not sure how to say this without seeming condescending or something, but I don't know if guys know what it's like to constantly be judged only by looks. A woman could be intelligent, have a great job, have lots of accomplishments, etc, and still be reduced to '4/10 would not bang' because she may not fit the photoshoppped ideal of perfect woman. Not saying that every guy does this, of course.

Ugh, I feel like I'm doing a horrible job of explaining myself, so I will stop typing now

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Ex libris

As one of the women on this site, I guess I should voice my opinion - although others have explained it much better than I could.

Like the post above says, there is nothing wrong with appreciating beauty - and so I have no issues with the idea of the YLYL thread. It's the objectifying comments/attitudes that some posters have that is so infuriating. And those comments/attitudes do show up in other threads.

I usually feel very welcome in this forum (although I rarely post, I do visit several time a day), but there are times when the sexist comments/attitude makes me feel very unwelcome.

Also, not sure how to say this without seeming condescending or something, but I don't know if guys know what it's like to constantly be judged only by looks. A woman could be intelligent, have a great job, have lots of accomplishments, etc, and still be reduced to '4/10 would not bang' because she may not fit the photoshoppped ideal of perfect woman. Not saying that every guy does this, of course.

Ugh, I feel like I'm doing a horrible job of explaining myself, so I will stop typing now

You sound reasonable and your concerns are very understandable, I think that's roughly the line most here are trying to draw as well. While I think the idea behind appreciating attractiveness is fine, I agree whatever other chatter happens in there should be contained to that thread.

But really, if you go in, what do you really expect to see? It's just like as a religious individual I find the level of ignorance in the apostate/atheist thread insulting on a personal level (especially when throwing the negative actions of those of a specific religion under "religion" as a whole, and making it all out to be some terrible plague - it's so, so much more complex than that), but I try to avoid saying anything there as it's kind of as advertised in the title, and I really shouldn't bother stepping into a conversation that's bound to disappoint me anyways. It's just doing yourself a favour, but on that note it should really stay within the confines of that thread where it belongs.

As for the constant judging, that is definitely a real issue. And it's not condescending, we (well many of us) understand perfectly well. Societal standards run both ways, while however being harsher and more strict on women. For guys, it's (apparently) being tall, fit, dark hair/complexion, and being able to be the more financially stable one. Shallow sounding, I know. But that's the idea we're given by the way many describe the "ideal" man on the tv, radio, and various social media. Trust me when I say, the pressure is definitely felt by guys to meet these standards too. And while females tend not to be vocal with such that kind of objectifying chatter (and it's appreciated), I know some guys (myself included) can sometimes be paranoid that women are at least mentally putting us next to a checklist, to see whether we're good enough for them. This is why women in groups can be slightly terrifying when you're interacting with them. When we leave, we imagine you might be picking us apart. Today's standards do a number on males and females growing up and the way we go about "building ourselves", the problem (and sad part) is, many of us are building towards somebody else's standards, not our own. You'll never truly be content with yourself if you always believe there's a way to fit better into this mould society has spoon fed us. That's why I most appreciate people who know how senseless it is to devote yourself to, and strive to be whatever they want to be, and not care. Also to approach others with an open mind, and hopefully you know, digging a bit beyond the surface before throwing someone 'into the bin'. We're all born the way we are, and it's certainly unfair for anyone's value to stop at appearance or these terribly superficial things.

Bleh. But what can you do..

[driveway]

One of the common arguments in defence of both the YLYL thread, and the general posting of lady-pictures in general is that 'it's never wrong to appreciate beauty'. And that is valid. But the thing we need to think about is what kind of community we want to be. Do we want to be a welcoming community which tries hard to include everyone, or do we want to be a community which is more appealing to people who fit into a standard of what the community has been in the past?

We're sports fans here, obviously. What we have in common is fandom or interest in the Flames. Traditionally, this is a male-dominated community. Some people may really like that about being a sports fan, both men and women. Men may feel this is a 'last bastion', women may enjoy being part of a 'secret club' or something. That's fine, but I personally want to be a more inclusive community. I think different voices and different perspectives are really, really valuable.

A simple example of that is the voices that come from fans of other teams. Yes, trolls suck, but there are some really great members of CP who are Canucks and Oilers fans. They offer an interesting perspective on our team and the game. I think women, minorities, and people from different cultures offer similarly interesting and valuable contributions to the community.

I think the presence of the YLYL thread, particularly its regular presence on the front-page of the Off-Topic Forum, is detrimental to the community. I think there is a strong likelihood that it discourages participation in the community by women, and I think that's something we should correct by getting rid of it.

[Tinordi]

What's the cost benefit of closing the thread?

Cost: a small number of epicureans who want to "appreciate female beauty" with other flames fans won't be able to and will have to take their appreciation to one of the thousands of other sites.

Benefit: women and girls will feel more welcome to post

Benefit: sexists, misogynists, cave trolls, objectifiers, will feel less welcome and less validated in their beliefs by others of the same ilk

Benefit: the scourge of sexist language and ideas on this board will be initially addressed as unwanted in this community

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Benefit: sexists, misogynists, cave trolls, objectifiers, will feel less welcome and less validated in their beliefs by others of the same ilk

Did you just generalize everyone who looks at or posts there as sexists, misogynists, cave trolls and objectifiers?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Did you just generalize everyone who looks at or posts there as sexists, misogynists, cave trolls and objectifiers?

No I didn't, why so defensive?

[Hockey_Ninja]

If there is this much controversy over the thread then we should just close it.

[SHOGUN]

Women are insecure.

Men are insecure.

The end.