Bob McKenzie's Draft Ranking - June 23 5:30PM MT - TSN

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by Read Only

What does where a guy is drafted have to do with fans opinions?

I guess I'm not talking about fan opinions so much as draft position, which is what I thought the thread was about generally.

And what have those guys done at the NHL level to prove they were drafted low?

Petan and Point? Well, nothing, but given that Petan was drafted last summer and Point won't be drafted until a few days from now I feel like you're being a bit harsh.

Patrick was tiny but talented he went first, Gagner pretty small the same year but went 5th. Small can still go high but they have to show a reason to take them that high.

Again, referring to specific guys isn't helpful - you can find lots of examples of different types of players and sizes to attempt to justify any viewpoint on the draft. However, with respect to those two guys, Gagner was drafted too high largely because of his linemate made him look better than he was. I assume "Patrick" is Kane, and um look at his junior numbers there was no way he wasn't going at the top of the draft, the guy was psychotic in his draft year. The decision to draft him first on the basis of his skill seems to have worked out okay, by the way. But usually first overally picks are pretty consensus, anyway, and I don't think my top 4 (in spite of priorities you disagree with) are different than most peoples'.

What hurts a guys draft standing more than anything is looking like he can't play in the NHL.

No one can play in the NHL before they're drafted, so one can judge this accurately when a player is 17 years old. There will be hits and misses. The point is that the criteria traditionally used to determine whether someone "looks like they can play in the NHL" is misguided in my opinion.

[Murph]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Worth a read for those calling Ho-Sang a brat.



We have to keep in mind the hockey establishment is extremely conservative. I'd guess to a hockey manager or coach, half the players in the NFL and NBA are head-cases. There's definitely risk around Ho-Sang, but I don't think the guy is a d-bag. He's just far more of an independent thinker than the conformist world of hockey is accustomed to.

Having read the posted articles, Ho-Sang comes off to me as having an attitude similar to that of Richard Sherman.

[SuperMatt18]

I don't know about Ho-Sang being on our do not draft list now....I kind of think Burke would respect this.

"I think it should be a level playing field. Where it's like, I can talk to you. I can tell you I think you're an idiot and that I think we should be running a different power play, we should be running a different penalty kill," Ho-Sang told ESPN The Magazine. "And you can tell me as a player, 'You're an idiot. You can shut up. I'm the coach.' I want a relationship like that."

[Read Only]

The problem is what Ho Sang leaves out is that when the coach says this is what we are doing and why and Ho Sang says F that I'm doing my own thing.

Can't see Burke liking that.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't know about Ho-Sang being on our do not draft list now....I kind of think Burke would respect this.

...are you being serious?

No NHL executive is going to respect a kid believing he can tell an NHL coach that he's an idiot, and that his powerplay is stupid.

The more Ho-Sang quotes I read, the more out of touch with reality the kid seems to be.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

...are you being serious?

No NHL executive is going to respect a kid believing he can tell an NHL coach that he's an idiot, and that his powerplay is stupid.

The more Ho-Sang quotes I read, the more out of touch with reality the kid seems to be.

I was half serious.

I do think he would respect Ho-Sang having the balls to have that type of attitude, but the issue is more that Ho-Sang says that and then doesn't listen to his coaches.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

You seem to underestimate how easy it is for a 6'2 200+ LB defenceman to physically manhandle, shut down and contain 5'10 forwards.

Pierre-Marc Bouchard was a game changing talent one draft year and Minnesota took him top 10. He's ended up as a power play specialist and often times 4th liner.

Have you been a fan of hockey a long time? Many smaller guys just don't translate their game changing skill into the NHL. The ones who do are the exceptions.

depends which 5'10 guy. I doubt Bouwmeester finds it easy to contain Patrick Kane. Certain guys have the ability to pivot and bounce off the bigger guys to the point that their bigger size is a disadvantage.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

The more I read about Ho Sang, the more I like. I don't really believe he is a head case, he probably thinks as highly of himself as any other prospect. The only difference is he's honest about it.

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Brian Burke has said he values humility. He thinks hockey is a game that teaches humility and he thinks good hockey players are humble and thankful for what they have.

Frankly, I suspect most elite young hockey players are entitled prima donnas. Some are just savvy enough and coached (by parents and agents) not to let it show to their bosses and the media.

I'm not a Ho-Sang cheerleader here. He may very well not be cut out to be a professional hockey player. But he doesn't seem like any more of a d-bag than most elite young hockey players - he just doesn't filter himself the way the rest do.

[DropIt]

Hoping for Adrian Kempe at 34 and Ryan Donato at 54. Doubt Donato falls that far, and I think Kempe gets snagged at the end of the first round, but if we could nab either of those two in the 2nd round I would be ecstatic with our first 2 rounds.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Murph

Having read the posted articles, Ho-Sang comes off to me as having an attitude similar to that of Richard Sherman.

Yeah, I'd agree to a point anyway.
The big difference is Sherman brings his game against the best pros week in and out, and is a great team guy as well, as I understand it.
So the attitude is well earned.

P Kane comes off a little bit like 'that guy' as well, but again, he's earned the right to be that guy, if he chooses to be.

Ho-Sang is not doing himself any favours at this point

[Murph]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Yeah, I'd agree to a point anyway.
The big difference is Sherman brings his game against the best pros week in and out, and is a great team guy as well, as I understand it.
So the attitude is well earned.

P Kane comes off a little bit like 'that guy' as well, but again, he's earned the right to be that guy, if he chooses to be.

Ho-Sang is not doing himself any favours at this point

I don't think he's doing himself any favours either, but his attitude intrigues me more than scares me. Given the right leadership I think he might be able to thrive.

If I was Treliving, I would ask Hartley if he thought he could (or wanted to) handle Ho-Sang's personality. The kid is undeniably talented, so if Hartley thought he could handle him and he was available at #34, I'd take him.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Do you have a link?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/on-demand/

Its currently at the top of this page.

The very general paraphrasing feeling I got was that basically says that he wouldnt burn a 1st rounder on HoSang and he knows that many NHL teams won't take him at all, no matter what round he is available in.

Makes mention that if he slips as far as the early 3rd round then someone will have to step up and take a flyer on him. Says his off ice issues are more off putting than Deangelos.

However, if he ever figures it out, he could be as good as anyone in this draft.

[Badgers Nose]

I hope Hunter Smith drops a bit and Flames can nab him with 64 or a cheaply acquired 3nd round pick. But realistically I think he is gone around 40-50.

IMO if keeps developing he would be the ultimate RW for Johnny.

[edit]

bah! screw it, I would take him with 34

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=723150

[Point Blank]

Ho-Sang certainly has the right to disagree with the coach, but to desire a relationship with the coach where he can tell him off like calling him an idiot is a huge problem. If he becomes the star player for a team and tells the coach in front of his own team that the coach is an idiot it could create rifts in the locker room.

I'm a fan of brutal honesty, but only if it produces a constructive outcome, calling someone an idiot is definitely not constructive.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I was half serious.

I do think he would respect Ho-Sang having the balls to have that type of attitude, but the issue is more that Ho-Sang says that and then doesn't listen to his coaches.

Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but any player in any sport who disrespects and insults his coach isn't going to listen to his coach.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Ho-Sang certainly has the right to disagree with the coach, but to desire a relationship with the coach where he can tell him off like calling him an idiot is a huge problem. If he becomes the star player for a team and tells the coach in front of his own team that the coach is an idiot it could create rifts in the locker room.

I'm a fan of brutal honesty, but only if it produces a constructive outcome, calling someone an idiot is definitely not constructive.

Hartley would destroy him. Or just punt into the press box forever. Making everyone regret that pick forever.

[Badgers Nose]

Tell me this Hunter Smith quote is not awesome:

"I think if I'm going to be moving up to the next level that's going to have to be my game. At 6-7, I'm going to have to own the front of the net. That's got to be my office."

3. No 18-year-old player is a finished product; what do you see as the areas of your game that will need the most work in the next couple years?
"Speed, quickness, will be the main things I focus on for the next 3-4 years. That's going to make or break me on whether I can jump to the next level. Strength will come. I am 18 years old. By the time I'm 22, I'm going to be pretty strong but it depends on how quick I'll be."
4. What teammate are you most grateful to for helping you find your place with the Generals?
"Last year I thought Boone Jenner [now with the NHL's Columbus Blue Jackets] helped me. He was a good captain who led by example, showed how hard work can help you achieve anything. Boone's a very skilled player but he's also the hardest-working player on the ice. Obviously, getting to play with players like Michael Dal Colle and Scott Laughton helps a lot because they make me a better player when I'm on the ice with them."
5. How has been the toughest defenceman you have faced during your three seasons in the OHL?
"Probably [the Barrie Colts' Aaron] Ekblad. He's probably the best defenceman in the league right now. He's just so big and so hard to get around and move out of the corner."

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jr...184216694.html

Ho Sang sounds like an idiot in comparison.

[Jacks]

I just had a mental image of Ho-Sang and Mike Keenan at a practice. Whoa baby! shortest practice ever.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by theoforever

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/06/24...joshua-ho-sang

a good read about ho-sang

Unreal...i get why teams are staying far away from him now.

he comes across as the ultimate "look at me, im great" guy in that piece. Team games are usually not good for guys like that.

Hopefully he gets a chance down the line to prove that stuff is nothing but cockiness from an 18YO...but i wont hold my breath.

[A Shot Wide]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I just had a mental image of Ho-Sang and Mike Keenan at a practice. Whoa baby! shortest practice ever.

I'm pretty sure there wouldn't even be a practice. As soon as both stepped on the ice a black hole would spontaneously form and swallow the known universe.