Burke Speaks - January 30, 2014

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by macrov

His mom is a cp user?

She/he/it wouldn't confirm or deny it. But so it appears.

[trackercowe]

When Kadri was drafted by the Leafs he was 6'0, Bobby Ryan was 6'1, the Sedin's were 6'0/6'1.

People need to stop worrying of what the over/under is on what exact height Burke is looking for. He may not take someone who is 5'9 or 5'10 with the lottery pick, but knowing what division the Flames are in I have no problem with that. Small first line centers are going to have trouble lining up against the Getzlaf's, Kopitar's, and Thornton's of the Pacific division. Just look at how slow Hopkins is progressing in Edmonton for the sake of this argument, with his size he'd probably doing a lot better in the Eastern conference.

Oh and Connor McDavid is already 6'0 for those wondering

[Textcritic]

I read through this entire thread, and I have to say, half of you guys are beyond ridiculous. From Burke's off the record, off the cuff comments at a STH event, the paranoid bunch have concluded that:
• Burke's draft philosophy is to pass on first line talent in the draft in favour of big, lumbering goons.
• Burke can't judge talent because he likes the Flames' 2013 draft, but not the 2011 draft, and because he criticised Backlund's skating.
• Burke is an insufferable bully from his Backlund comments, and also because he made a joke about Gaudreau's size.
• Burke hates Gaudreau because he didn't effuse endlessly about his hockey skills, and because of the joke.
• Burke is too hard on Flames' prospects, and will inevitably scare them all away with his jokes and his constant public shaming.

Thanks guys. You are all hilarious.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I'm not a big fan of the jokes about Johnny either. I think the guy needs encouragement, not the GM of the team hoping he signs with making comments like that about aspects of himself he can't really control...

Not to single you out, but I did want to provide another take here, and your post provides a pretty good opportunity for that. Johnny Gaudreau is essentially the mayor of Boston. He appears with surprising regularity on the front page of the sports section, is commonly featured in local sportscasts, and generates a buzz almost single handedly that is bigger than the Bruins. Are we really worried about Gaudreau suffering for want of encouragement? I could counter by arguing that Burke's refusal to bend the knee to Gaudreau is actually good for him, by providing a counter-weight for a kid who is reminded every day of the year that he is the best player in college hockey by an enormous margin. He will be challenged to become an NHL player. Why shouldn't Burke take the opportunity to remind him of this fact, especially in his current environment that has already anointed him a sports legend?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by nik-

Especially since Backlund has easily been one of our best players for a good stretch here. I just don't see the point of going after something negative when it's obviously not affecting performance.

It sure did affect his performance tonight... or... not...

[TjRhythmic]

Conroy was on breakfast television the other day and they asked him the "size" question. Said that people mistake that and take it literally. Do they want big guys, yes, but if there is a player that is a little smaller that is skilled but plays big that's ok too. Burke uses Paul Byron as an example, Burke loves Byron. So he's not opposed to smaller players as long as they play big. And the whole truculent thing. He just wants players that don't give up, again, play big, and just work hard every shift... being hard to play against.

The defense, he wants a bigger stronger group, but the forward group he wants skill.. if they can get size great, but if the player is skilled and a little small, that's ok too... as long as the play big..

The scouting staff have their marching orders with regards to the type of players they want... Conroy said several times, the emphasis on size is getting overblown by the media and fans. End of the day they want skilled, smart, hard working hockey players.

I know most people don't like or trust Burke, but I trust Conroy, and after hearing him describe the direction of the team I'm more comfortable.

[btimbit]

These are professional athletes. If they couldn't take criticism they wouldn't be anywhere near the level they're at. Especially from coaches and executives.

Take a look at the Galiardi model video. If a guy like Gaudreau wasn't able to take a simple joke, they'd have no place in any locker room. I'm not at all concerned about Burke poking light fun at his height.

Originally Posted by nik-

Especially since Backlund has easily been one of our best players for a good stretch here. I just don't see the point of going after something negative when it's obviously not affecting performance.

Even Crosby has parts of his game he could improve. What harm could Burke saying Backlunds skating isn't very strong possibly do?

[TjRhythmic]

Originally Posted by btimbit

These are professional athletes. If they couldn't take criticism they wouldn't be anywhere near the level they're at. Especially from coaches and executives.

Take a look at the Galiardi model video. If a guy like Gaudreau wasn't able to take a simple joke, they'd have no place in any locker room. I'm not at all concerned about Burke poking light fun at his height.



Even Crosby has parts of his game he could improve. What harm could Burke saying Backlunds skating isn't very strong possibly do?

Make him work on it in the off season and come into next season better

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

GM's who have a strong player development. If those middle round guys were so good, they would have been picked earlier.

I don't want to downplay scouting and developing, obviously hugely important and absolutely necessary.

But I don't quite agree with this sentiment. There's tons of players that came out of places like college, juniors and even other countries that developed into late round gems with little help from their NHL teams.

Gaudreau, while having a ton to prove still, has definitely shot up in rankings since being drafted. If there was a 2011 redraft he's definitely not going in the 4th round again, yet he's had 10 days in the summer with the Flames. And Boston College isn't exactly turning coal into diamonds over there.

Robitaille went from a 9th round pick to 3rd in QJMHL scoring in a year. Suter, drafted after Robitaille in the 9th round that year, was a rookie sensation with the Flames despite being in the NCAA the year before. And they weren't even the last All-Stars to be picked that year.

Dealing with 18 year olds the draft is more about projection which leaves a lot of room for 'luck'.

And that luck is why there isn't a single GM in the league that hasn't had a year or two or couple dozen they wish they could redo.

Gainey with Montreal was easily one of the better producers of quantity (and quality) draft picks. 2005 he had Price, Kostitsyn, Latendresse, and D'Agostini play significant time in the league. 2007 was an amazing year with McDonagh, Pacioretty and Subban. But 2006, 2008 and 2009 he has nothing to show for those drafts.

Pretty much, with the exception of Holland, there's not a GM in the league who you can safely bet will produce an NHLer without the help of a top 10 pick. Some are better than others but if you're getting players like Kelser with late first round picks, the occasional Bieksa or Malik with later picks and then having multiple franchise changing drafts like Burke did with Pronger and the Sedins you get a little bit more slack for having some bad years. Putting more weight on latest results there's a bit more concern as Toronto doesn't appear to have had the best drafting but as a whole I'd put him at worst average as you can't overlook the Pronger and Sedin drafts.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by TjRhythmic

Make him work on it in the off season and come into next season better

Exactly. It's not going to hurt Backs' feelings and make him start playing worse.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I read through this entire thread, and I have to say, half of you guys are beyond ridiculous. From Burke's off the record, off the cuff comments at a STH event, the paranoid bunch have concluded that:
• Burke's draft philosophy is to pass on first line talent in the draft in favour of big, lumbering goons.
• Burke can't judge talent because he likes the Flames' 2013 draft, but not the 2011 draft, and because he criticised Backlund's skating.
• Burke is an insufferable bully from his Backlund comments, and also because he made a joke about Gaudreau's size.
• Burke hates Gaudreau because he didn't effuse endlessly about his hockey skills, and because of the joke.
• Burke is too hard on Flames' prospects, and will inevitably scare them all away with his jokes and his constant public shaming.

Thanks guys. You are all hilarious.


Not to single you out, but I did want to provide another take here, and your post provides a pretty good opportunity for that. Johnny Gaudreau is essentially the mayor of Boston. He appears with surprising regularity on the front page of the sports section, is commonly featured in local sportscasts, and generates a buzz almost single handedly that is bigger than the Bruins. Are we really worried about Gaudreau suffering for want of encouragement? I could counter by arguing that Burke's refusal to bend the knee to Gaudreau is actually good for him, by providing a counter-weight for a kid who is reminded every day of the year that he is the best player in college hockey by an enormous margin. He will be challenged to become an NHL player. Why shouldn't Burke take the opportunity to remind him of this fact, especially in his current environment that has already anointed him a sports legend?

True, it's actually not bad of Burke to take him down a peg and challenge him, since he's basically a sports celebrity down there and probably feels indestructible amongst his peers and local press. But he could have done it in a better manner, was my point. I'm well aware of the buzz that Johnny generates. I'd like him to know though that this city and organization is 100% behind him and wants him here. And until he inks that ELC, it's not ridiculous for some of us big Gaudreau followers to get a little uneasy about how he's publicly commented on by our GM. Johnny and his folks admitted they didn't know much about Burke when he stepped in, and were on very good terms with Feaster prior. I'd just like to see that relationship stay healthy until that contract day. It probably is, and they probably have had conversations since Burke's stepped in. But for us fans who don't hear them, we only have his press comments to go on with complete certainty. I'd just like to see his situation being handled professionally on our part, as he is an extremely valuable asset and arguably the most talented prospect we have.

[btimbit]

I think Burke's comments are bit like how I act at work. If one of my guys makes a minor mistake, I call them out in front of everyone, we laugh it off and improve. If it's a serious mistake, I pull that person aside or into my office for a chat. The public comments are stuff meant to be laughed at with traces of truth, if anyone reads too much into it and/or gets offended, it's generally not the type of person I want in my organization anyway.

[stemit14]

I just don't see the benefit to the team in Burke being so negative about the assets in the organization... If he doesn't like any of the players that were taken in the 2011 draft (and by the way, I completely disagree with him), then I can assume he's planning on moving them for other assets. Publicly ridiculing these players only decreases their value to the organization as tradable assets.

If I'm another GM and he comes to me wanting a player with size I know that he places little to no value on granlund, baertschi, and gaudreau. Burke is so public about his dislike for these players that my starting price would be all 3 of them cause I know he undervalues them. And, at this point, I would not be surprised to see him make that trade for a player who has less offensive upside but is over 6'2". And we flames fans would be very upset.

I want this team to get more size as well but I don't want to see smaller young prospects driven out of the organization before they have been given a chance to mature.

At this point, Burke's criticism of nearly every player in the organization feels more like trying to rip into his predecessors (Feaster and D. sutter). As if he wants everyone to know that any time this team loses a game, it's because of them and not him. I'm not saying it's wrong to criticize players... I'm just saying that being so publicly negative of every part of this team is counter-productive to making it better.

[djsFlames]

nm

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

True, it's actually not bad of Burke to take him down a peg and challenge him, since he's basically a sports celebrity down there and probably feels indestructible amongst his peers and local press. But he could have done it in a better manner, was my point.

Burke was making a joke at an off-the-record event for season ticket holders. He was NOT IN CONVERSATION with Gaudreau, nor was he speaking publicly about him. In all likelihood, this is a comment that will never get back to Gaudreau, and even if it does, he would have to be irrationally sensitive and insecure to interpret it as anything other than a comedic barb.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I'm well aware of the buzz that Johnny generates. I'd like him to know though that this city and organization is 100% behind him and wants him here.

Do you sincerely believe that this bit of information from a private, informal STH session is the only way for Gaudreau to gauge support from the team and the city? I can guarantee that he hears ALOT more directly from Burke and the Flames than ANY of the season ticket holders.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

And until he inks that ELC, it's not ridiculous for some of us big Gaudreau followers to get a little uneasy about how he's publicly commented on by our GM.

The sky is not falling. Burke's comments about size and the little bits that the media and Flames fans get from his public statements about Gaudreau aren't nearly precise enough to make ANY judgements about his impression of him. Especially in light of Burke's dearth of praise for ALL prospects in public, his statements about Gaudreau appear to be far too general from which to draw any meaningful insight.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I'd just like to see that relationship stay healthy until that contract day. It probably is, and they probably have had conversations since Burke's stepped in. But for us fans who don't hear them, we only have his press comments to go on with complete certainty. I'd just like to see his situation being handled professionally on our part, as he is an extremely valuable asset and arguably the most talented prospect we have.

Show me some indication that the Flames are not behaving professionally in their handling of Gaudreau, and I will share your concern. But Burke's public comments about his size, and the jokes that proceed from this reality do not qualify as evidence for any lack of professionalism.

Again, this is borderline paranoia. Its an hysterical over-reaction bred from a pathological fear.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I just don't see the benefit to the team in Burke being so negative about the assets in the organization... If he doesn't like any of the players that were taken in the 2011 draft (and by the way, I completely disagree with him), then I can assume he's planning on moving them for other assets. Publicly ridiculing these players only decreases their value to the organization as tradable assets.

In the first place, I think it is an excessive overreaction to interpret Burke's comments and his joke as "public ridicule. This was an informal season ticket holders gathering, and Burke was speaking off the cuff. Secondly, it is laughable to imagine that comments and jokes made in a STH session will have ANY IMPACT WHATSOEVER on the trade value of players or prospects.

Originally Posted by stemit14

If I'm another GM and he comes to me wanting a player with size I know that he places little to no value on granlund, baertschi, and gaudreau. Burke is so public about his dislike for these players that my starting price would be all 3 of them cause I know he undervalues them. And, at this point, I would not be surprised to see him make that trade for a player who has less offensive upside but is over 6'2". And we flames fans would be very upset.

Ridiculous. You know nothing in this instance. Again, this is hand-wringing nonsense bred from an overactive imagination in a stew of paranoia.

Originally Posted by stemit14

...At this point, Burke's criticism of nearly every player in the organization feels more like trying to rip into his predecessors (Feaster and D. sutter). As if he wants everyone to know that any time this team loses a game, it's because of them and not him. I'm not saying it's wrong to criticize players... I'm just saying that being so publicly negative of every part of this team is counter-productive to making it better.

Has it made things worse? Do we have any real reason to believe that Burke's statements in public and to fans about the team and its players is doing any damage to the organisation?

The legend of Burke's "negativity" is reaching mythic proportions. He is sarcastic, dry, and bombastic. These are not qualities in a person that I generally find appealing, but even I recognise that this is also not necessarily indicative of infectious negativity. A lot of you really need to lighten up. Start worrying when there is clearly something about which to worry.

[EYE_Overstand]

Chances of Gaudreau making an sort of impact in the NHL is minor. Some of you expect him to become the 2nd coming of Theo or St Louis.

He is tiny. Sven is small. JH is TINY.

And as a poster put it earlier... It was a comedic jab. If he takes it as something that sways his decision then let him walk. Also... If he doesn't turn pro, I will go on record and say he's scared.

[FAN]

Burke likes to talk and it's hard to read too much into it. Take Burke's position on NTCs. Burke has at one time or another said that 1) he will never ask a player to waive his NTC because it's something that was negotiated and has something to do with fairness 2) He will never give out full NTCs because he doesn't believe in it absent extraordinary circumstances, and 3) he will not be bound by NTCs given by the previous regime. Yep it sounds a bit contradictory but at the end of the day Burke really isn't a fully predictable guy. You can kind of take his word because he's stubborn but then again you can't take his word because he sets conditions.

In terms of prospects and the draft should you be worried? Yes and no. Burke is really good when he targets a player. If he believes a player will be a star/franchise player he is likely to be right. With a top 3 pick he's been money. With lower picks? Not so much. He is going to influence the draft as far as the first round and what he is looking for in a prospect, but beyond the first round, Burke has always been someone who lets his scouts pick.

The fact is to put blind faith on Burke is to be stupid. Burke is not opposed to driving players with potential to be good players out of town. He could care less if his actions or words lower the trade value of a player. He did that with Umberger and he did it with Kadri until Kadri blossomed. In fact his comments about Sven is similar to his comments to Kadri. Sure you can interpret it as Burke trying to get his prospect to reach their potential, but I think Burke really doesn't care. Burke isn't the type to micromanage. He's all about the big picture. He's not about saying the right things about a prospect to maintain the prospect's trade value. He's about acquiring the necessary players to make the team a contender.

So if he said that the 2013 draft is the only draft he liked it's probably true. Then again, it doesn't mean that prospects from other drafts can't impress Burke and prove him wrong or that Burke is a good drafter. At the end of the day it just might be Burke opening his mouth.

[PeteMoss]

Or maybe they are just trying to motivate players. Hartley went after Backlund earlier this year... scratched him... and now he's playing the best hockey of his career.

[Hockeyguy15]

Anyone been in a hockey dressing room in the past 20 years?

"He needs a booster seat to drive" is clearly a light hearted chirp. If you don't think team mates/management joke with Gaudreau about his size then you might need to give your head a shake. I'm not a big guy, and my whole life guys on the team and coaches have joked with me about my height and it never bothered me one bit.

It's Friday, lighten up!

[saillias]

As a 5'8" person I am personally furious about those comments and plan to confront Brian Burke... while standing on a higher platform so we're eye to eye.