[PGT] Leafs 4 Flames 2

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by browna

So who is next on Hartley's hit list? So Sven and Backlund are the two most worthy of getting a message sent to them? Sven only got in last game due to Stempniak being hurt. Glencross got a goal so he's off the list for a couple days.

Wonder what Monohan thinks of all this.

D'oh!

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

If you asked Sidney Crosby he'd tell you the same thing. Every player can improve and they know that.

sitting Backlund was a big mistake which might have cost us the game.

What cost us? his 40% in the faceoff circle? The 9 minutes he put forth in the WSH game? His amazing contribution of 2 Takeaways / game while his lack of playmaking ability costs us scoring chances.

This isn't on Hartley, Sutter did the same (sitting him). He got a free ride while Stajan was hurt and Colbourne figured out how to fit in here. They are both clicking and he's the 4th best centre on this team right now.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^^ ok. But really ... Jackman vs Backlund? Really, the team lost and how did Jackman contribute?

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^^ ok. But really ... Jackman vs Backlund? Really, the team lost and how did Jackman contribute?

I understand that, but it has nothing to do with his replacement. They 're sending him a message early. We all know he's getting back in next game and he's got things to prove.

It's a long 82 game season, people will sit. It's atrocious to suggest that sitting point per every 2-3 game type players, are costing the team W's by their absence.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

I understand that, but it has nothing to do with his replacement. They 're sending him a message early. We all know he's getting back in next game and he's got things to prove.

It's a long 82 game season, people will sit. It's atrocious to suggest that sitting point per every 2-3 game type players, are costing the team W's by their absence.

I get it, but it is an odd message.

We want to ice the best team. We want more from you. Yeah, you are better than this guy, but he is performing closer to his expectations.

I still think the coach should try and win every night, and use his 3-4 days between games to teach lessons. But also get how benching a guy's ass can wake him up.

[doctajones428]

I thought we had a good game, some sloppy passes and a soft goal, but Bernier is the reason why we got beat. He stole the game for Toronto.

Also, with guys like Ashton, Bolland, Maclaren, Orr and Clarkson running around, I'd rather leave one of our core youngsters off the team for a game.

I'm sure Backlund will be back in next game with a multipoint game. The sky isn't falling

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

I thought we had a good game, some sloppy passes and a soft goal, but Bernier is the reason why we got beat. He stole the game for Toronto.

Also, with guys like Ashton, Bolland, Maclaren, Orr and Clarkson running around, I'd rather leave one of our core youngsters off the team for a game.

I'm sure Backlund will be back in next game with a multipoint game. The sky isn't falling

That is fair. The Calgary roster controlled the play. McGrattan did his job. Ashton and Orr were neutralized. But Jackman contributed little.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I get it, but it is an odd message.

We want to ice the best team. We want more from you. Yeah, you are better than this guy, but he is performing closer to his expectations.

I still think the coach should try and win every night, and use his 3-4 days between games to teach lessons. But also get how benching a guy's ass can wake him up.

It's called lighting a fire under his ass. I guess we're not used to seeing that with the floaters of the past few years being spoonfed minutes when playing like garbage (Glencross/Bourque/Comeau)

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

It's likely going to be GlenX grabbing a seat next game. he's still out of sorts but when he's on he can pot a lot of goals.

[Rubber Ducky]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Actually Jackman was all over Ashton, Ashton didn't want to drop the gloves so Jackman skated away.

SOB went after Ashton because he was two strides away. Was Jackman even on the ice?

I don't like Jackman on the team but this post is ridiculous

I guess we were watching a different sequence of events. Ashton was chirping like crazy in Jackman's ear, and Jackman just skated away at the drop of the puck.

Who cares if Jackman was on the ice when SOB fought Ashton. That's not the point I was trying to make. You can have Jackman. I was disappointed in his game.

[Darphwejdar]

cool

[Stanley]

(sigh)...see, I told ya we shoulda acquired Bernier somehow...

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Enjoyed the game last night. Good effort and fun to watch despite the loss. Few comments to add to the fray:

1) The coaches need to get Ramo to calm down a bit in the net. The minute he loses sight of a puck he does a crazy 180 turn and full on scrambles, which makes matters worse. Even the commentators noticed how many times he ended up facing the back of his net during a scramble. I think he's generally solid and when he is anticipating well, his lateral movement is good (see his saves on Ovie this weekend) but when reacting his lateral movement tends to push him into a slide and he slides out of his crease. Needs to add little economy to his movements.

2) Colborne has been fine. He's definitely getting better, and I say this as someone who was generally skeptical of picking up a player basically sight unseen. He's definitely being played to fit and has not yet been held to the same standards as a couple of the younger players. That's the irrationality of life.

3) Just loving the Kris Russell acquisition. Smart player who is getting more and more fluid with every game. Is not physically big but uses his body well in the corners not necessarily to hit, but to quickly wedge in between the player and the puck to protect and regain possession. Has been very solid in the offensive zone, patient and calm at the point.

4) Love TJ Brodie, great skater and good vision. I think the coaching staff needs to continue to support his jumps up in to the offensive zone as he did last night. But as a trade-off, I think they need to ask him to make simpler plays coming out of our defensive zone. If he makes that first pass out earlier and safer, things will work out better and he has the speed to jump up into the play if he sees an opening. He's been caught quite a few times this year trying to stickhandle and/or holding the puck a bit too long, allowing teams to pick his pocket or forcing a turnover from a bad pass.

5) I don't agree with Backlund sitting. See #2 above regarding different standards, but I'm not overly outraged by a player sitting one game. However, I do think that the coaching staff does collateral damage to the team when sitting Backlund and replacing him with a player like Jackman. With Jackman *and* McGrattan on the 4th line, it means that the 4th line plays less. That results in less ice time for Bouma, who I think can help this team and can provide 10 minutes of solid effort a game. This team can get more out of the 4th line than it does, and I'm disappointed that the coaching staff is making moves that limit the contribution that Bouma can provide.

[stazzy33]

What is going on with Ramo's glove hand? The puck always seems to hit is glove, but never stays in there. It's so strange I started to think it was intentional.... It was happening at the game against Washington on Saturday and again last night against the Leafs.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Colborne is a slightly more skilled David Moss. His hands turn into stone a few feet from the net. He easily should have had 2 easy tap in goals.

It's easy to forget this guys a rookie.....he looks to be much more skilled than Moss. He doesn't look out of place on the NHL ice at all and Moss still does.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Dion

I sometimes wonder if we are not getting all the reasons when a player sits. Backs for the most part has been a good player for us this season.

Of course were not getting all the reasons....coaches see a need to sit a guy and it could be one of dozens of reasons we don't know about nor should we.

If Sven is consistently and repeatedly making the same defensive mistake over and over...fans wouldn't even know about it. The scratch could be as simple as, "ok Sven...you clearly aren't getting this. Take a game upstairs and watch Hudler every second of every shift".

Could be a guy who is 5 minutes late for every meeting...dude came to the skate hungover.

I know a lot of the participation award winners in here (not you Dion) would have a problem with this tactic but a good pro coach has expectations and consequences....Scotty Bowman was a master at this stuff. Would just unexpectedly see Federov benched for a period for no apparent reason.

Honestly can't believe some posters in here believe it has to either be an obvious reason or we need an explanation....so much stuff behind the scenes we will never know about.

My vent wasn't at you Dion.

[PeteMoss]

If Colborne had been drafted by the Flames instead of picked up for a 4th rounder we'd all be jumping for joy at our big young centre making huge development strides at age 23.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by fotze

I don't think there is anything I understand less in hockey than the benching to motivate dynamic. In all these years I just cannot grasp how it works, how it is applied, who it is applied to, what reasons are for sitting out. Its most likely due to me not being on the bench or locker room, but I just cannot understand it.

I always try to give the benefit of the doubt to the coaching, obviously they want the players to be the best they can be and the team to win. There seems to be an age or some point where the sitting out games thing cannot be used anymore. I don't know what it is. Is it the number of NHL contracts you have played through? Do you have to be North American? Is it age based? What makes a player untouchable? I have no idea?

There has to be a male ego dynamic at work too, we all see it in our own workplaces, and it surely will be there in the NHL. How much does it come into play? Maybe it doesn't??

I just have this nightmare of the Savard scenario in my head that constantly lingers in my head. I know the coach apologists like to recall how that played out as 100% Savard's fault, but nothing is ever that cut and dry.

I feel the coach should use whatever means necessary to getting the best out of the player, whatever means, benching, embarrassing in the media, whatever. BUT, if you lose that player resulting in an eventual trade demand (resulting in a severe loss of value in the player), the coach has failed and probably needs to be fired. It can be a fine line for the coach to walk and will vary from player to player. The best coaches can walk that line and push it.

It is a ridiculous coaching move and you've hit the nail on the head. Once you hit 25 years old or hit some magical scoring level (i.e. Glencross and 20 goals) you are no longer allowed to be scratched. If you're 20 and make one mistake.. immediate icetime cut and scratch.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

It is a ridiculous coaching move and you've hit the nail on the head. Once you hit 25 years old or hit some magical scoring level (i.e. Glencross and 20 goals) you are no longer allowed to be scratched. If you're 20 and make one mistake.. immediate icetime cut and scratch.

Like I said...it could be as simple as once your 25 and your head has dropped out of your arse...you stop showing up late or hungover for practice.

The reality is a lot of you are jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If Colborne had been drafted by the Flames instead of picked up for a 4th rounder we'd all be jumping for joy at our big young centre making huge development strides at age 23.

I think we are going to be very pleased with this pick up in a couple seasons...I already think he is playing above expectations...well, my expectations anyway.