Fair enough, would you support taking those big hits out of the game though?
I mean with player size and speed in the game today should we be considering taking out the line em up intentional big hit?
Yes
Contact in hockey should be about separating player from puck and nothing more.
No, not at all. What puzzles me is how you can support the change for player safety when:
a) Big hits are a much bigger problem
b) Those players make their living off that part of the game, it is not like they are forced to fight. It is an adult choice.
Would you support the end of big hits if that discussion came up in the NHL for player safety reasons? I am curious.
A) there are suspensions for most of those hits, and I don't know that they're more dangerous
B) if that's the reason to resist the change, why not allow gladiator style combat if the combatants are willing? If we should enforce safety changes if the employees want it, why aren't the safety inspectors we send to job sites more popular?
Yes
Contact in hockey should be about separating player from puck and nothing more.
I agree with you. I have reconsidered my stance on fighting and see the argument in a different way but I still like it when a guy fights to get his team going. It is a tough discussion for sure. I hated seeing what happened to Ivanans, that made me sick.
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A) there are suspensions for most of those hits, and I don't know that they're more dangerous
B) if that's the reason to resist the change, why not allow gladiator style combat if the combatants are willing? If we should enforce safety changes if the employees want it, why aren't the safety inspectors we send to job sites more popular?
Fair enough although I really disagree about the big hits not being more dangerous than fighting.
Yup, every other "normal" profession, even though the job may be inheritly dangerous, takes steps to make things safer. The argument that other things are more dangerous is completely beside the point.
Hockey isn't going to be less entertaining because they constantly take steps to make the game safer. I'd be very glad when we stop hearing constantly about players/former players' quality of life being not what it should be because they suffered a concussion or something like that.
Holy god man your post is right up here on the page, that is EXACTLY what you said. Don't try and backpeddle and cut the insult b.s.
Maybe the words entertainment and sports mean the same thing to you but they are not the same. A body check is integral part of the sport. Fighting is not a integral part of the sport.
The only reason you, and other like minded people, want it to remain is that it entertains you. That makes it entertainment, not sport.
Maybe the words entertainment and sports mean the same thing to you but they are not the same. A body check is integral part of the sport. Fighting is not a integral part of the sport.
The only reason you, and other like minded people, want it to remain is that it entertains you. That makes it entertainment, not sport.
A huge crushing hit is not an intergral part of the sport.
I think almost 99% of fights in the NHL are boring anyways. I don't mind when a fight comes out of passion but how often do we see that? Maybe once every 20 fights? They're usually fights that are set up from before the whistle is even blown.
I watched the Leafs game last night and who didn't know Orr and Parros were going to fight? I did not find it entertaining at all. Now show me Iginla and Lecavalier all over again and my eyes would be glued to the screen, but I honestly changed the channel watching Orr and Parros fight.
Add to the fact that we now know the extent of head injuries it really is a no brainer to ban fighting altogether.
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Yup, every other "normal" profession, even though the job may be inheritly dangerous, takes steps to make things safer. The argument that other things are more dangerous is completely beside the point.
Hockey isn't going to be less entertaining because they constantly take steps to make the game safer. I'd be very glad when we stop hearing constantly about players/former players' quality of life being not what it should be because they suffered a concussion or something like that.
I guess my real question for everyone here is, "have any of you actually played competitive hockey before?"
Because if you have, you'd realize the importance of a good scrap. Whether it'd be to send a message to another team, or to get your team emotionally involved. Fighting can be just as crucial as a goal or a big hit.
Yes, it's barbaric, yes, it can cause injuries. But it's there for a reason. Trust me, if they banned fighting, the level of stick work and yapping would increase ten-fold. To me, it's a good deterrent to keep the pesky weasels from taking to many liberties against the top line players.
Lets face it folks, the NHL isn't the Olympics. It's 82 games of hard nosed hockey. With "real" hockey players. Not just the top line players. (the ones who "actually" decide playoff series) Those heart players...
Fighting in hockey is a beautiful thing. Two opposing players, in the heat of the moment letting go and fighting for their teams pride.
I truly will be sad when it gets banned, then the pussification of the NHL will be complete.
And i'm willing to bet that the States will still not pay any attention to it.
I'm honestly shocked at just how many people on here are against fighting... Guess none of you watch UFC either, eh?
I guess my real question for everyone here is, "have any of you actually played competitive hockey before?"
Because if you have, you'd realize the importance of a good scrap. Whether it'd be to send a message to another team, or to get your team emotionally involved. Fighting can be just as crucial as a goal or a big hit.
Yes, it's barbaric, yes, it can cause injuries. But it's there for a reason. Trust me, if they banned fighting, the level of stick work and yapping would increase ten-fold. To me, it's a good deterrent to keep the pesky weasels from taking to many liberties against the top line players.
Lets face it folks, the NHL isn't the Olympics. It's 82 games of hard nosed hockey. With "real" hockey players. Not just the top line players. (the ones who "actually" decide playoff series) Those heart players...
Fighting in hockey is a beautiful thing. Two opposing players, in the heat of the moment letting go and fighting for their teams pride.
I truly will be sad when it gets banned, then the pussification of the NHL will be complete.
And i'm willing to bet that the States will still not pay any attention to it.
I'm honestly shocked at just how many people on here are against fighting... Guess none of you watch UFC either, eh?
The real question is in what league did you play where fighting was allowed?
So the only "truly honest" argument is that you don't like fighting as opposed to any other arguments. Truly terrible.
If your argument really is player safety, particularly risk of head injury, then an honest viewpoint is to desire the removal of all contact, not just fighting. If you support the continuation of hockey as a full contact sport, but oppose fighting, then player health pretty much isn't your top concern. Simply admiting you want fighting out because you don't like it spares us arguments that rely on cherry picking when and where things like player safety matter to you.
My opinion would be to limit the number of fights a player can have a season. For example, five fighting majors and you get suspended x number of games. This would eliminate goons and staged fights and make players think twice and the real value in their fight, while keeping teams honest.
It seems like a pretty good compromise IMO.
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My point was, what the players want shouldn't be a barometer for what is best. Or we wouldn't have visors or helmets.
Wouldn't it have been better to make visors mandatory before players started losing eyes?
The players have proven that they care more for comfort than for safety. Therefore we shouldn't be looking to them for what to do.
Like with any other rule change, they'll adapt.
I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, but we don't live in a world where the players have no say. Whether or not you feel they should have a say in this, the reality is that they do. Consequently, their opinion matters.
As an aside, they talked about this on the panel during the Leafs game, and I was really quite surprised to hear Bob McKenzie state that he believes fighting is here to stay. Especially since he is an anti-fighting guy overall, I believe. Among his arguments, he noted that in minor leagues that ban fighting, the automatic game misconduct actually encourages tough guys to go out and fight late in games, if only to get out of the game and to the dressing room sooner. And, in the few junior B games I've seen that ban fighting, the auto game misconduct certainly has not curtailed it. (Two obvious caveats though: small sample size, and the fact that the plural of anecdote is not data.)
My opinion would be to limit the number of fights a player can have a season. For example, five fighting majors and you get suspended x number of games. This would eliminate goons and staged fights and make players think twice and the real value in their fight, while keeping teams honest.
It seems like a pretty good compromise IMO.
Five is too low, but honestly, this is probably the way things will probably go eventually. The OHL implemented such a rule, with the cut off being 10 fights, iirc, and it did result in a marked decrease in fights.
[U]
Yes, it's barbaric, yes, it can cause injuries. But it's there for a reason. Trust me, if they banned fighting, the level of stick work and yapping would increase ten-fold. To me, it's a good deterrent to keep the pesky weasels from taking to many liberties against the top line players.
Some people keep saying this, but I don't know how they could possibly believe it.
Just look at the 80's. Fighting was more commonplace. They didn't have instigating penalties, they didn't have rules against 3rd man in, or leaving the bench.
Yet, stick fouls were way higher in the 80's. You can find all kinds of just ruthless stuff on youtube.
That baseball swing by Suter got 6 games internationally and 4 NHL games. Nowadays it would probably be 30.
You rarely see intentional high sticking nowadays because the league comes down on it very hard. It has nothing to do with fighting.
