[Trade] Flames acquire Kris Russel for a 2014 5th round pick and sign him (1yr, $1.5mil)

[Itse]

I have grown to hate the term "recouping picks". There is no such thing unless for some reason the nice GM just gives it back to you once you realize you actually need it.

Once you give a pick away, you have less. If you get a new one, you still have less than you would if you never gave that pick away.

As to the importance of the later round picks, let me just quote John Weisbrod

"...the sort of decisive decisions that in my mind make or break the success of the draft, you know, the rounds 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. You know, good teams that want to get better, they hit paydirt in those rounds."

I'm honestly don't have enough of an opinion on Russel to form an opinion about this trade, but I am a little concerned that Feaster is more impatient about the rebuild than he says he is.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Itse

I have grown to hate the term "recouping picks". There is no such thing unless for some reason the nice GM just gives it back to you once you realize you actually need it.

Once you give a pick away, you have less. If you get a new one, you still have less than you would if you never gave that pick away.

That's because "recouping picks" have the meaning of trading down in the first round or trading former first round picks (Erixon) for 2nd round picks here in Calgary.

There are situations where teams do "recoup" picks by acquiring a player for a draft pick and trading a similar player for a draft pick or when a player is traded later for a similar pick.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by FAN

That's because "recouping picks" have the meaning of trading down in the first round or trading former first round picks (Erixon) for 2nd round picks here in Calgary.

There are situations where teams do "recoup" picks by acquiring a player for a draft pick and trading a similar player for a draft pick or when a player is traded later for a similar pick.

Examples?

[Sylvanfan]

The Sharks did so with Doug Murray, Ryanne Clowe, and Michal Handzus than replacing Clowe with Raffi Torres, and Murray with Scott Hannan.

In the case of Galiardi, and Russel, the Flames have parted with a 5th round pick in the next two drafts to get a 26 year old defenceman who's played 364 games in the NHL and a 25 year old winger who's got 221 games played. The Flames just spent a 5th round pick on a highschool kid that was not on Central Scouting's radar, and that few people had ever heard of. Come the trade deadline, a player like Blake Comeau did fetch the Flames a 5th round pick. So this year the likes of Jackman, Cammalleri, Stepniak, Stajan can be moved out at the deadline for more picks.

I can live with trading a 5th round pick for a 25-26 year old NHL player. If these were third rounders not so much. So long as the team isn't leaving itself light on picks come draft day itself, and I'm talking prior to the day itself, I'm not a fan of going in with 6 picks that day and leaving with 9...From what I've seen moving down for more picks on draft day seems to result in more bust picks, but admittedly that's more opinion than fact.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think some Flames fans see the three first round picks the team had this year and forget that this team has traded a lot of draft picks over the years and is managed by a GM with a history of trading draft picks.

The team doesn't have a 4th and 5th round picks next year. By next year's draft the team might not have their 2nd and or 3rd either. Not saying that the picks can be recouped, but there's no need to waste picks.

Because.....

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think some Flames fans see the three first round picks the team had this year and forget that this team has traded a lot of draft picks over the years and is managed by a GM with a history of trading draft picks.

The team doesn't have a 4th and 5th round picks next year. By next year's draft the team might not have their 2nd and or 3rd either. Not saying that the picks can be recouped, but there's no need to waste picks.

the Flames have a 4th next year, they traded the one in 2015

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Corban Knight was for a 4th next year, no?

[JurassicTunga12]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

Corban Knight was for a 4th next year, no?

The 4th for the Knight trade was this years.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

On the surface, it sounds like a good excuse, but when you start thinking about it, the arbitration excuse doesn't pass the logic test. There is not reason to think that Russell would have either been awarded a lot in arbitration or wouldn't have accepted the same contract he accepted from the Blues. Not every player that is eligible for arbitration chooses it, especially if they are offered a reasonable deal. It actually scares me to think that the Flames management would believe that Russell is such a great player that arbitration would have been his choice at all in lieu of signing the deal he did.

I'm fine with giving up a 5th rounder for a player they wanted whether he was on waivers a few days ago or not. I just wish they wouldn't try to make up excuses.




Whether it's admissible or not isn't the point. The point is, bad players shouldn't get large arbitration awards, nor should they even choose arbitration if they are offered a reasonable deal. Honestly, what does it tell you when his old team made roster moves that pushed him from 5th to 8th and being a healthy scratch? This is not a good player that would have shunned a $1.5 million deal from the Flames, or any team. This was a player that is lucky to have an NHL deal for another season. Who are the past arbitration comparables that suggest Russell would have benefited from that decision?

Arbitration is not just about the money awarded, though. The team has to prove the player is not worth what they want. They have to show how "bad" the player is. I've heard it's not a pleasant experience, likely for both sides. Who wants to hear those things? Who wants to talk a player down, knowing they'll still have that player afterwards?

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

Corban Knight was for a 4th next year, no?

We sent our 2013 4th round pick in that trade

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by JurassicTunga12

The 4th for the Knight trade was this years.

Ah, whoops

[The Fonz]

How is everyone so concerned over a ~125th overall draft pick?

The likelyhood of grabbing a player who will ever play 200 NHL games is about 5%. Kris Russell already has 360 GP.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

How is everyone so concerned over a ~125th overall draft pick?

The likelyhood of grabbing a player who will ever play 200 NHL games is about 5%. Kris Russell already has 360 GP.

He is also a hard working player with good character. The kind of guy you want around a team during a rebuild.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

How is everyone so concerned over a ~125th overall draft pick?

The likelyhood of grabbing a player who will ever play 200 NHL games is about 5%. Kris Russell already has 360 GP.

It was an unnecessary waste of a draft pick. People love to throw the "odds of a draft pick playing in the NHL" to support the trading of a draft pick. The problem with that is that you can use the same argument for trading away higher picks including 2nd round picks. I think the odds of a 2nd round pick making the NHL is between 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 and the odds that a 2nd round pick becomes a solid top 9 player or top 4 defenseman is even worse.

So ya I'm concerned over the unnecessary waste of a draft pick because I believe in building through the draft and I believe the Flames shouldn't be trading away draft picks for immediate help at this time.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by FAN

It was an unnecessary waste of a draft pick. People love to throw the "odds of a draft pick playing in the NHL" to support the trading of a draft pick. The problem with that is that you can use the same argument for trading away higher picks including 2nd round picks. I think the odds of a 2nd round pick making the NHL is between 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 and the odds that a 2nd round pick becomes a solid top 9 player or top 4 defenseman is even worse.

So ya I'm concerned over the unnecessary waste of a draft pick because I believe in building through the draft and I believe the Flames shouldn't be trading away draft picks for immediate help at this time.

Players in the 23-25 age range can be a part of not only the rebuild, but the years that follow it's successful completion. Well worth a 5th round pick if they can play.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by FAN

It was an unnecessary waste of a draft pick. People love to throw the "odds of a draft pick playing in the NHL" to support the trading of a draft pick. The problem with that is that you can use the same argument for trading away higher picks including 2nd round picks. I think the odds of a 2nd round pick making the NHL is between 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 and the odds that a 2nd round pick becomes a solid top 9 player or top 4 defenseman is even worse.

So ya I'm concerned over the unnecessary waste of a draft pick because I believe in building through the draft and I believe the Flames shouldn't be trading away draft picks for immediate help at this time.

It's like you haven't even read the thread and some of the proposed reasons for making the trade rather than just picking him up on waivers.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by FAN

It was an unnecessary waste of a draft pick. People love to throw the "odds of a draft pick playing in the NHL" to support the trading of a draft pick. The problem with that is that you can use the same argument for trading away higher picks including 2nd round picks. I think the odds of a 2nd round pick making the NHL is between 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 and the odds that a 2nd round pick becomes a solid top 9 player or top 4 defenseman is even worse.

So ya I'm concerned over the unnecessary waste of a draft pick because I believe in building through the draft and I believe the Flames shouldn't be trading away draft picks for immediate help at this time.

So you as a casual FAN have a better grasp on the situation than the the professional GM? I guess they better fire Feaster and hire you

[SeanCharles]

I don't get all the anger towards trading away 4th and 5th rd picks to aquire young NHLers. Trades are designed to make your team better. In Calgary's case getting kids in the 23-27range is what is gonna make this team better..we have a dearth of talent in that age group and by spending a 4th and two 5ths we were able to stock up in this category.

Blake Comeau, a waiver wire pick up, was traded for a 5th.That pick was used for Eric Roy. The scouting staff admitted they would have drafted Eric Roy in the 4th rd, istead he fell to the 5th and we got Corban Knight in the process.

These late rd picks are good forms of currency to be spending, especially in a rebuild, in order to fill needs for your team. They are the easiest to recoup and they arent dont deal a significant blow to the rebuild process.

Three new players in the 22-27 range that want to play here and have untapped upside and all it cost less than 3rd rounders in all three instances. These are big win deals for Feaster.

Stop worrying about 4th and 5th rd picks. Feaster still picked 8 players this yr in the draft out of 7 rds.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by the2bears

It's like you haven't even read the thread and some of the proposed reasons for making the trade rather than just picking him up on waivers.

I'm going by Feaster's official explanation which was to avoid the risk of acquiring a player who might go to arbitration.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by FAN

I'm going by Feaster's official explanation which was to avoid the risk of acquiring a player who might go to arbitration.

Let me ask you this.

Would you be happy with Russell on a 1 year deal for 3.4 million?