Jones and Horak to Abbotsford; EDIT: And recall Aliu

[Tron_fdc]

I haven't seen this guy play but I like what I'm hearing.

The guy sounds like a bit of an a-hole that is going to run around acting like a d-bag. Good. If we're going to lose I'd rather watch that than the rest of the forwards floating through a game looking for stretch passes.

One of my favourite players in recent memory was Ville Niemenen. The guy was ridiculous......the first memory that comes to mind was him running Cujo in the playoffs for no reason whatsoever, and it did two things. It served a bit of notice that we weren't afraid to do it, and it made him totally unpredictable in the eyes of the Red Wings. I don't think his teammates knew wtf he was going to do next. Right now I'm sure teams look at us and think a)midgets b)soft c) easy to intimidate and play against. Not saying Aliu is the answer, and I don't really know if that's a good comparable, but if he can wake up a few guys and make them compete a little harder when he runs the tender then I'm totally ok with it. Some of these guys need to get involved.

Btw, I wish Niemenen spoke better english. I followed him on twitter and had google translate going, and he's actually pretty hilarious even with a broken translation.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't think hurt feelings should play into it either, but I also don't think you should spend all offseason talking about some BS meritocracy and then pull something like this.

The idea of "metitocracy" has to be kept within context though. If you need a goalie, you don't call up a skater based on merit, just like if you need an energy player/pest, you don't call up Kolanos (who based on merit, would be called up at some point).

[Muta]

I'm super excited to see Aliu create #####e on the ice! Some of you should be more supportive of this move in what is otherwise a confusing franchise. Hopefully he gets under the skin of opponents... we need more of that.

And at the end of the day, Aliu is also just a 4th liner.... this won't make or break the season. There are other candidates to sit or demote (Comeau, etc.) but it is what it is. None of us are the GM's so bitching about it won't help.

I'm excited!

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Well, we did the same with Irving.

I honestly get the feeling that Feaster is tanking the ship now. Call it what you want... auditioning youth, assessing assets, shaking things up... whatever you want to call it, this is a tried and true way of tanking and going for the draft pick.

If Feaster were going to tank the ship as you say, he'd be doing a heck of a lot more - i.e. trading the few players he can for pick/prospects or whatever else he can. This is a desperate team and a desperate GM that are completely out of options to fill roster holes (center/goal/agitator) that have been neglected for months, if not years.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I haven't seen this guy play but I like what I'm hearing.

The guy sounds like a bit of an a-hole that is going to run around acting like a d-bag. Good. If we're going to lose I'd rather watch that than the rest of the forwards floating through a game looking for stretch passes.
.

Akim Aliu‏@Dreamer_Aliu78
Super excited to be goin back up to Calgary playing in front of those fans #cofred


Sounds like a real a-hole.

(I know what you mean though)

[BigFlameDog]

This is Hartley's first season and first crack at shuffling the deck (over the last month)....the questions is, if he finds the same non-answers as his predecessor's will the organization do anything about it?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

This is Hartley's first season and first crack at shuffling the deck (over the last month)....the questions is, if he finds the same non-answers as his predecessor's will the organization do anything about it?

He deserves at least 2 seasons, probably 3 considering that this one is half of a season.

It's unrealistic to expect a coach to come in and turn things around immediately - esepcially after a lockout and no real training camp (players coming in out of shape, no real personal assessment of players and prospects, no time to undo previous mindsets, etc...).

[moon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The idea of "metitocracy" has to be kept within context though. If you need a goalie, you don't call up a skater based on merit, just like if you need an energy player/pest, you don't call up Kolanos (who based on merit, would be called up at some point).

Sure but then why not Bancks who has shown more than Aliu this year and can play the same role with better play overall as well?

Why send Jones down one of the few guys that can win a face-off and who is playing much better than Begin, Jackman and Comeau?

They can send guys up and down for whatever reason I am just tired of the bogus meritocracy line (and was from the moment they said it not just now) only to see them act the same way every other team/management group does. It is just another time of Feaster running his mouth off about how things are going to be different and using buzz words and then doing nothing of the sort.

Edit: Not sure if bancks has a NHL deal so maybe he can't be called up but there has to be someone on an NHL deal better to call up than future beer league legend Aliu.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by saillias

Yeah... Fans expect the Flames to be a team of nice guys and gentlemen now?

Nah, I wish we had more Keslers and Burrows and Lucics and E and P Kanes. Dicks, and effective players.

I wouldn't mind at all if we traded for guys like Ott, Neal, and Tootoo after this gong show of softness.

[Gary83]

Originally Posted by moon

Sure but then why not Bancks who has shown more than Aliu this year and can play the same role with better play overall as well?

Why send Jones down one of the few guys that can win a face-off and who is playing much better than Begin, Jackman and Comeau?

They can send guys up and down for whatever reason I am just tired of the bogus meritocracy line (and was from the moment they said it not just now) only to see them act the same way every other team/management group does. It is just another time of Feaster running his mouth off about how things are going to be different and using buzz words and then doing nothing of the sort.

Because as much as I like Bancks, Aliu will do it more effectively at the NHL level. Bancks, while having all the heart in the world will never have the size to do it at the NHL level. I still don't understand Jones being sent down either. I've yet to really see this meritocracy in play this year.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by moon

Sure but then why not Bancks who has shown more than Aliu this year and can play the same role with better play overall as well?

Why send Jones down one of the few guys that can win a face-off and who is playing much better than Begin, Jackman and Comeau?

They can send guys up and down for whatever reason I am just tired of the bogus meritocracy line (and was from the moment they said it not just now) only to see them act the same way every other team/management group does. It is just another time of Feaster running his mouth off about how things are going to be different and using buzz words and then doing nothing of the sort.

It wouldn't at all surprise me if Feaster is simply moving players up and down now in the hopes they get claimed on waivers (Jones). Not sure if Aliu is waiver eligible or not right now? The flames are in contract numbers jail and nearly back into cap jail...two places Jay said we wouldn't be again not too long ago.

Guess that's what happens when you dish out pro deals to everyone and their dog for two years.

[gargamel]

Has there been any official word about Sven? Him being ready to return is the most likely explanation for Horak being sent down, but he was still wearing the yellow jersey in practice yesterday and is still listed on the IR. I'm surprised that he wouldn't at least take a little contact in practice before we'd clear space for him on the roster.

Also, does anyone remember who was on the ice when the Kings ran MacDonald the other night?

[Ice_Weasel]

imo - Its not as much what Aliu will do individually for the 4-5 minutes that he is on the ice that matters...if stirring the whole game up gets the rest of the team more engaged it is definately the right move.

[moon]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Has there been any official word about Sven? Him being ready to return is the most likely explanation for Horak being sent down, but he was still wearing the yellow jersey in practice yesterday and is still listed on the IR. I'm surprised that he wouldn't at least take a little contact in practice before we'd clear space for him on the roster.

Also, does anyone remember who was on the ice when the Kings ran MacDonald the other night?

I am pretty sure Wideman and Brodie were on ice, Wideman for sure.

Also think that Stempnial and Stajan but not sure about that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Gary83

Because as much as I like Bancks, Aliu will do it more effectively at the NHL level. Bancks, while having all the heart in the world will never have the size to do it at the NHL level. I still don't understand Jones being sent down either. I've yet to really see this meritocracy in play this year.

I think there is more to the Jones story than they are telling. He must have done something to piss them off.

But really, he doesn't do much of anything. Jones, Comeau - who cares?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by moon

It is just another time of Feaster running his mouth off about how things are going to be different and using buzz words and then doing nothing of the sort.

Not to be coy, but this is actually what executives do in any business. A lot of it is building hype and making things seem better than they actually are to both employees and customers in an effort to keep up appearances. Businesses that fail do so because nobody sees any potential left in them, and sometimes that happens no matter what the executives say. I give you the Calgary Flames franchise...how long before the Flames are playing in front of 10,000 fans again?

[Red Menace]

Why all the fuss...these 4th liners are inter-changeable...lets give Aliu a chance....sure it doesn't sound like he's played all that great in Abbotsford, but he did have a nice game in his call up last year,..it wasn't his fault the other team wasn't trying. Maybe Bancks is deserving as well, (and yes he has an NHL contract too), but he is 5 11, 185....Aliu is 6'4 225.....we need some size....lets give the kid a shot and see what happens....

[Cali Panthers Fan]

As for the move: Not a fan overall of Aliu, but at this point he can't play any worse than most of the Flames did last game. He adds size and wreckless play, and maybe a net presence on offense...that is all.

I don't agree with much said in this thread, but I will agree with this: This has to be the worst group of centers the Flames have ever had in their history.

[station]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

If Feaster were going to tank the ship as you say, he'd be doing a heck of a lot more - i.e. trading the few players he can for pick/prospects or whatever else he can. This is a desperate team and a desperate GM that are completely out of options to fill roster holes (center/goal/agitator) that have been neglected for months, if not years.

But is right now the time to do be doing that? Is a fire sale in mid-Feb really the way to go? Isn't that exactly what Darryl did a few years ago with disastrous results?

Obvisouly they aren't going to come out and say that they're tanking now so everyone must go. This team has skill but injuries and a lack of toughness and energy are dooming the season anyway. If you're going to sell off some skill players you might as well just tinker with the lineup for now to see what you have and then listen to offers at the deadline when competitive teams will give up the most. If you don't get offers that make sense then you don't trade players just for the sake of it.

Not necessarily saying this is for sure what's happening but I think it's plausible.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Not to be coy, but this is actually what executives do in any business. A lot of it is building hype and making things seem better than they actually are to both employees and customers in an effort to keep up appearances. Businesses that fail do so because nobody sees any potential left in them, and sometimes that happens no matter what the executives say. I give you the Calgary Flames franchise...how long before the Flames are playing in front of 10,000 fans again?

I don't remembering hearing a lot of talk from previous GM's to the level that we have heard the BS from Feaster. Can't remember hearing this kind of crap from teams like Detroit, Boston, Pittsburgh etc.

You give me the Flames franchise and I imagine it would be a long time until you see 10,000 fans unless the dollar goes to crap again which is likely the same situation the current guys are in.

Originally Posted by station

But is right now the time to do be doing that? Is a fire sale in mid-Feb really the way to go? Isn't that exactly what Darryl did a few years ago with disastrous results?

That is not what Darryl did at all.

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Why all the fuss...these 4th liners are inter-changeable...lets give Aliu a chance....sure it doesn't sound like he's played all that great in Abbotsford, but he did have a nice game in his call up last year,..it wasn't his fault the other team wasn't trying. Maybe Bancks is deserving as well, (and yes he has an NHL contract too), but he is 5 11, 185....Aliu is 6'4 225.....we need some size....lets give the kid a shot and see what happens....

I would say a major issue is do you think you would ever hear Detroit saying "hey lets bring this kid that hasn't played well in the minors up. Why not?' Do you think Boston makes moves like that? Chicago? Pittsburgh?