Imperial Oil building office in Quarry Park

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Nufy

Traffic sucks here now...

Let alone when everyone else arrives...

In addition to the IOL complex, there is a new bldg going up across from my office and earth works have already started for another bldg further north on 24 street.

South of us is a never ending excercise in moving piles of dirt around that will become another bldg someday.

And once the rec centre gets built it will all be complete.

Thanks god i pay for underground parking. Now I just need a helicopter.

How will you park your helicopter underground?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I don`t follow the transit developments very much but with all the development in the deep SE and with the corporate expansion in Quarry Park shouldn`t a SE transit line be higher priority than expansion to the north-central portion of the city

No. The density up Centre street/Edmonton Trail is much higher, and the distance much shorter.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

How will you park your helicopter underground?

Tie it to the roof and leave it running. It will make the area remarkably garbage free.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

No. The density up Centre street/Edmonton Trail is much higher, and the distance much shorter.

Wouldn't it be higher cost though especially with potential tunneling requirements and potentially acquiring properties? I would think that going to the SE would be logistically easier.

[Nufy]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

How will you park your helicopter underground?

Its a big garage door...

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Wouldn't it be higher cost though especially with potential tunneling requirements and potentially acquiring properties? I would think that going to the SE would be logistically easier.

I think the LRT has gone for the cheap hit enough and it's time to actually suck it up and do the expensive things that will make they system the best it can be (8th Ave tunnel, North Central corridor).

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Wouldn't it be higher cost though especially with potential tunneling requirements and potentially acquiring properties? I would think that going to the SE would be logistically easier.

According to the city, north central is more economic than SE to Quarry Park.

http://www.routeahead.ca/wp-content/...yAheadWeb2.pdf

North Central line estimated at $2.5 billion with 19 million annual riders.

SE line to quarry park estimated at $1.65 billion with 10.5 million annual riders.

Their document isn't clear whether the SE estimate requires the transitway spending of $667 million first, which would push the SE line even more uneconomic.

Of course, none of the new lines is as economic as building an airport spur, which would cost $175 million and net 3.5 million riders per year.

[Muta]

I seem to remember that the North Central LRT line would likely have to tunnel all the way from Eau Claire (or possibly from 7th Avenue) all the way under the river, up the hill and all the way to 16th Ave before breaking ground. If not, it runs up Centre Street, which is already crammed.

I love that kind of innovation; I'd be for it. That would be one of the most heavily used train routes ever.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

According to the city, north central is more economic than SE to Quarry Park.

http://www.routeahead.ca/wp-content/...yAheadWeb2.pdf

North Central line estimated at $2.5 billion with 19 million annual riders.

SE line to quarry park estimated at $1.65 billion with 10.5 million annual riders.

Their document isn't clear whether the SE estimate requires the transitway spending of $667 million first, which would push the SE line even more uneconomic.

Of course, none of the new lines is as economic as building an airport spur, which would cost $175 million and net 3.5 million riders per year.

Transit to Seton apparently reaches 22 million in ridership and acts to serve the major commercial area of Quarry Park as well as Seton and the South Health Campus.

I'm sure transit in the North sucks but considering the boom of SE communities and now the growth and development at Quarry Park it seems like that project should get the focus over the north expansion. The north line at $2.5 billion does not even begin to reach the sprawling communities in the North (it only goes to 78 Ave if I understand correctly.) How many hundreds of thousands of people live north of Beddington?

[Muta]

Cutting costs is what the City did along the trenched portion of the West LRT. Just f'n ugly, and has taken away valuable land for houses and future development along that corridor. I'm with hulkrogan; either do it properly (underground), or don't build anything until you have enough money to do so.

[calgarygeologist]

The more I think about the North Central LRT and look at the maps leads me to believe that trying to force the LRT up Centre Street is a bad idea and a bad plan especially if a future end result is trying to move people from the far north in and out of the core effectively.

I think Centre Street, the businesses and the communities would be best served by a street car like system running from China-town/Eau Claire up to McKnight Blvd or so. Additionally, the LRT should probably run up to the far north utilizing Edmonton Trail up to about 32 Ave from which point it should use land near Deerfoot to rapidly get up to Beddington Trail and to Symons Valley Rd. It should effectively act or serve as a commuter line/commuter train with limited stations and high speed right of ways.

[Hack&Lube]

Looking at the big underground LRT station at Westbrook, I think that was a hugely lost opportunity to integrate the station with the mall (redevelop it all).

A lot of bigger cities have their light rail or metro terminals built into shopping/retail complexes which helps pay for infrastructure (income from retail/rent) and also help bring traffic to retailers and create that kind of density to avoid dead-mall syndrome.

This discussion should probably go into the transit thread.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Looking at the big underground LRT station at Westbrook, I think that was a hugely lost opportunity to integrate the station with the mall (redevelop it all).

What makes you think it won't be? That land around the station is getting developed, and in very short order. I believe a proponent is being finalized for the design and construction. The proposal could integrate the station completely.

I worked on the first proposal in 2011 for this site. You'd be blown away by what my team proposed. The city has BIG plans for this location.

[Ozy_Flame]

Speaking of public transit, here's something to rile up the Yop-Gobblers:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...881/story.html

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Looking at the big underground LRT station at Westbrook, I think that was a hugely lost opportunity to integrate the station with the mall (redevelop it all).

A lot of bigger cities have their light rail or metro terminals built into shopping/retail complexes which helps pay for infrastructure (income from retail/rent) and also help bring traffic to retailers and create that kind of density to avoid dead-mall syndrome.

This discussion should probably go into the transit thread.

Westbrook was a huge disappointment in that project. A redevelopment during the LRT expansion should have been done especially considering the growth and resurgence of areas like Killarney, Wildwood, Spruce Cliff, Shaganappi and to a lesser degree Rosscarrock.

I was in Seoul, South Korea last summer and it was amazing how well designed and implemented their transit/subway system was. I rode the rails exclusively during my trip which included taking the train from the airport to my downtown hotel. Every major building had direct or very easy underground connections to the subway lines and it was a join and pleasure to travel on their system (and cheap.) It was somewhat complicated though but that mostly because of the size. Stations spans across three blocks and the trains were about two blocks in length.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Speaking of public transit, here's something to rile up the Yop-Gobblers:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...881/story.html

The SW ring road should probably take the approach of being a toll road much like the 407 in Toronto. That way maybe the City can make a little bit of money but more importantly maybe it could help appease the First Nation. I remember back in the day the idea was floated by Ralph Klein.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Westbrook was a huge disappointment in that project. A redevelopment during the LRT expansion should have been done especially considering the growth and resurgence of areas like Killarney, Wildwood, Spruce Cliff, Shaganappi and to a lesser degree Rosscarrock.

You're going to have to explain this one. Shaganappi is probably the biggest disappointment of a new train station there is - literally no one uses it. What resurgence is happening there? And where exactly would you put the Westbrook station that isn't already central to all those neighbourhoods you listed? Westbrook station is a redevelopment of the transit in that area, and all buses incoming from West Calgary pretty much go through the 17th/Bow Valley artery, and people transfer to the Westbrook station.

How is that a disappointment? Especially if the master plan for the Westbrook area hasn't even broken ground yet?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You're going to have to explain this one. Shaganappi is probably the biggest disappointment of a new train station there is - literally no one uses it.

Almost positive Shaganappi got a station because of the connection to the Silvera / new Kerby Centre site (the fenced off area by the pedestrian bridge with all the abandoned senior's homes) and certain personal relationships with the various groups involved.

Not that I oppose it at all, I think its great to have the luxury of a station there, but that station was about to never happen; if any station, that one was the first on the chopping block if necessary.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You're going to have to explain this one. Shaganappi is probably the biggest disappointment of a new train station there is - literally no one uses it. What resurgence is happening there? And where exactly would you put the Westbrook station that isn't already central to all those neighbourhoods you listed? Westbrook station is a redevelopment of the transit in that area, and all buses incoming from West Calgary pretty much go through the 17th/Bow Valley artery, and people transfer to the Westbrook station.

How is that a disappointment? Especially if the master plan for the Westbrook area hasn't even broken ground yet?

The disappointment I'm referring to is the lack of redevelopment of the mall during the construction of the LRT. The whole area should have been flattened at the same time as the High School and gas station and a new urban shopping/commercial area should have been built and incorporated into the underground station. Instead of that foresight the Westbrook Mall area is largely under-utilized and is a detraction for the surrounding communities.

The community of Shaganappi has been on a slower pace of redevelopment but there is action.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The disappointment I'm referring to is the lack of redevelopment of the mall during the construction of the LRT. The whole area should have been flattened at the same time as the High School and gas station and a new urban shopping/commercial area should have been built and incorporated into the underground station. Instead of that foresight the Westbrook Mall area is largely under-utilized and is a detraction for the surrounding communities.

The community of Shaganappi has been on a slower pace of redevelopment but there is action.

Fair enough, I guess I'm just of the opinion that the whole area, for the size that it is, would have been unlikely to be fully redeveloped, with a new mall, new residential towers, commercial redevelopment, etc all at once. To accomplish that, there wouldn't have been a train station until 10-15 years from now, if not longer. Also, there are a few anchors there that make sense for the station - for example, Wal Mart, Safeway, and the Golf Course / access to the river and its walkways. I would argue that putting the underground station there is actually good foresight to what the how the area is going to be redeveloped.

That cross section between 37th and 33rd, and 17th and Bow Trail is coming down the pipeline (Muta, can you confirm?)