well you never know... Some around here want to make a push for that final playoff spot and think the playoffs now are more important then the future. I'm sure there's someone here who would trade Sven for imidiate help
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Conversely, if the Winterhawks weren't such a good team and Sven was one of only a few bright spot, his scoring talents might flourish more, no? Regardless, I am perfectly happy with the development type, and rate, ant which he is at. He still has raw scoring talent but is as more capable, or more willing, to play the set up man. All we need is some pure, raw scoring firepower to pack in beside him.
well you never know... Some around here want to make a push for that final playoff spot and think the playoffs now are more important then the future. I'm sure there's someone here who would trade Sven for imidiate help
lol, no one "here" can trade Sven.
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Crosby got 168 points in 62 games
Bard Richards got 131 points in 59 games.
Bartschi is on pace for 100+ points easy (120-140 once its all said and done) Which would be better than what Ryan Nugent-Hopkins did for his last year in the WHL (69GP 31-75-106) -> 1st overall in 2011
Crosby got 168 points in 62 games
Bard Richards got 131 points in 59 games.
Bartschi is on pace for 100+ points easy (120-140 once its all said and done) Which would be better than what Ryan Nugent-Hopkins did for his last year in the WHL (69GP 31-75-106) -> 1st overall in 2011
Bartschi is a beast!
True, but doing that as a 17-18 year old is quite a bit different then doing it as a 18-19 year old.
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well you never know... Some around here want to make a push for that final playoff spot and think the playoffs now are more important then the future. I'm sure there's someone here who would trade Sven for imidiate help
Imagine if D. Sutter was still in the office in panic mode. It would be something like this:
Pierre Gautheir Habs GM: "Hey Darryl it's Pierre here calling from good old Montreal. I know it's a long shot but we are very interested in acquiring Bartschi and Iginla from you guys. We know the price will be steep so we may have to include Subban, Pacioretty, Leblanc and several of our draft picks but we are willing to take the..."
Darryl: I'll take Gomez, Gill, and a 7th round pick. I'll give you both of them and a 1st rounder to boot.
Pierre: "Are you sure Darryl? Gomez has been absolutely brutal over the last two seasons and Gill is one of the slowest D-men in the league. Also considering the position your franchise is in are you sure you want to give up your first rounder?
Darryl: "Positive 100%. Everyone knows i only draft late round talent anyway"
Pierre: "O.K. i warrened you..."
Draft day 2012:
Pierre: "With the first pick in the 2012 NHL entry draft. The Montreal Canadiens are proud to select from the Sarina Sting, Nail Yakupov"
Darryl: "Dammit...."
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Last edited by Hockey_Ninja; 12-07-2011 at 10:19 PM.
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yep at that level it is a big deal- and that's not to dismiss what Bartschi is up to
It is not as big of a deal when you consider that Baertschi has only played one full season of juniour hockey prior to this one. Crosby and Richards both grew up living, breathing, and learning the Canadian hockey climate and the game.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Do you really think so? Its one year. Does anyone care that Ovechkin is almost 2 years older than Crosby?
At that level it can be a huge deal. It needs to be looked at on an individual basis though. Some 6'2'' 20 year old in the WHL who's physically matured playing against a defensive pairing of some lanky 17 or 18 year olds who haven't filled out is going to have a far easier time playing a power-forward game than he would have even a year ago. However, there's a huge chance his type of game wont translate when he's playing against the 6'3'' 215 pound defenseman in the NHL. So you got to be weary of older players in the minors who use their strength or even speed to such an advantage, with some obvious exceptions, that wont work when they get to the NHL and everyone's bigger and faster.
That's the reason I don't have huge expectations for Ferland, despite being only a couple spots lower than Bartschi in the scoring race. It would be a bit of an exaggeration to call him a man among boys out there, but at 6'2''-210 he's one of the bigger forwards in the league, and he's playing a power-foward role on a line with Stone. It's not exactly a surprise that along with his size his production has gone up from last year but it's going to be harder to translate his game into the NHL without improving his skating and bulking up even more (and at 19 that's far from impossible).
Bartschi, on the other hand, doesn't seem to shy away from the physical side of the game but he doesn't use his size because well he's not that big. He may not reach 6 feet but at 185 he's far from reaching his physical maturity, or at least I hope. His game which relies on his hockey sense, vision, puck awareness and skating will translate to the NHL easier, but very much contradicting the rest of this post his size could still be an issue.
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 12-08-2011 at 02:09 AM.
At that level it can be a huge deal. It needs to be looked at on an individual basis though. Some 6'2'' 20 year old in the WHL who's physically matured playing against a defensive pairing of some lanky 17 or 18 year olds who haven't filled out is going to have a far easier time playing a power-forward game than he would have even a year ago. However, there's a huge chance his type of game wont translate when he's playing against the 6'3'' 215 pound defenseman in the NHL. So you got to be weary of older players in the minors who use their strength or even speed to such an advantage, with some obvious exceptions, that wont work when they get to the NHL and everyone's bigger and faster.
That's the reason I don't have huge expectations for Ferland, despite being only a couple spots lower than Bartschi in the scoring race. It would be a bit of an exaggeration to call him a man among boys out there, but at 6'2''-210 he's one of the bigger forwards in the league, and he's playing a power-foward role on a line with Stone. It's not exactly a surprise that along with his size his production has gone up from last year but it's going to be harder to translate his game into the NHL without improving his skating and bulking up even more (and at 19 that's far from impossible).
Bartschi, on the other hand, doesn't seem to shy away from the physical side of the game but he doesn't use his size because well he's not that big. He may not reach 6 feet but at 185 he's far from reaching his physical maturity, or at least I hope. His game which relies on his hockey sense, vision, puck awareness and skating will translate to the NHL easier, but very much contradicting the rest of this post his size could still be an issue.
Well going by your opinion on who succeeds based on size and the difference between a year or two in age, guys like Gretzky, Datsyuk, Theo Fleury, Nugent-Hopkins shouldn't have been successful because after all- they are going against 6'2 215 lb NHL defencemen. I guess because Ferland is bigger or one year older should definately spell his demise and end even before he starts. I guess Nemisz is also out of the picture too. Heck, Datsyuk was 23 when he made it to the NHL. Ridiculous ! you cannot predict who is or is not going to be successful based on age or size and lots of teams try and not throw their new draft picks (18 in age) into the next season and would rather develop them more first unless the team has nothing to loose by having them there. I think Sven Bartschi could be in the NHL now, but they feel another year in the north american minors only benefit the player and the team down the road- they are not in full re-build like the Oilers where spots are taken up on the Flames by vets like Iggy, Tanguay, Ollie, GlenX, Bourque, etc etc. In my personal opinion, an 18 year old or 19 is nothing, or even 20- size sometimes also amounts to be nothing- see- Gretzky, Fleury, Dionne, Kane, Skinner, Bure, Keon, I could go on....
Well going by your opinion on who succeeds based on size and the difference between a year or two in age, guys like Gretzky, Datsyuk, Theo Fleury, Nugent-Hopkins shouldn't have been successful because after all- they are going against 6'2 215 lb NHL defencemen. I guess because Ferland is bigger or one year older should definately spell his demise and end even before he starts. I guess Nemisz is also out of the picture too. Heck, Datsyuk was 23 when he made it to the NHL. Ridiculous ! you cannot predict who is or is not going to be successful based on age or size and lots of teams try and not throw their new draft picks (18 in age) into the next season and would rather develop them more first unless the team has nothing to loose by having them there. I think Sven Bartschi could be in the NHL now, but they feel another year in the north american minors only benefit the player and the team down the road- they are not in full re-build like the Oilers where spots are taken up on the Flames by vets like Iggy, Tanguay, Ollie, GlenX, Bourque, etc etc. In my personal opinion, an 18 year old or 19 is nothing, or even 20- size sometimes also amounts to be nothing- see- Gretzky, Fleury, Dionne, Kane, Skinner, Bure, Keon, I could go on....
Had you not quoted my post I would have no idea this was response to me. I really don't know how to respond to this post because it completely seems to miss all my points completely, guess I'll try though.
I'll start with Bartschi, I don't know how I could be more clear on how I see him as a great prospect. If "His game which relies on his hockey sense, vision, puck awareness and skating will translate to the NHL easier" isn't a ringing endorsement to you I'm not quite sure what you're expecting. I think he plays physical enough game that size is a bit of an issue, right now, at 180 pounds he would simply not be able to play the same way in the NHL. Which is fine, he has enough skill and is smart enough to think he could adapt but I'd much rather see him put on 10 or 15 pounds this next off-season and come into the NHL north of 190. Similar with Horak, I think his size is holding him back a bit, get both these guys training with Roberts during the off-season and I'll be a happy Flames fan.
As for size in general, of course it matters. Yes, there are exceptions, but size is definitely taken into account. Look at Grimaldi, based on talent, speed, determination he was easily a first round pick, probably high first. But he's 5''6' and that's the only reason he wasn't taken in the first, don't buy that his religious views cost him any spots. Gaudreau, not much different, many players taken above him possessed less talent. Is it completely stopping them from playing in the NHL? Of course not, but it's definitely an obstacle they will have to overcome that other players don't. No one will argue differently.
Now for Ferland, I'm not going to directly compare him to Casey Pierro-Zabotel, but like Pierro-Zabotel he's using his size to an advantage. With Pierro-Zabotel you couldn't knock him off the puck or out of the crease, he was too strong for the majority of WHL players, and along with good linemates who could get him to the puck, he just drove to the net or parked in front and waited. But, as time and time has shown again, at 210 pounds you can get away with that in the WHL, it's not as easy when you're going up against men. He couldn't make in the AHL and now he's in the ECHL, which comes to no surprise to everyone who watched him play and knew he wouldn't make it in the NHL without drastically improving his skating. And the list of big players who put up big points in the WHL who don't make it in the NHL is far bigger than those that do, like Cracknell. Thankfully Ferland is a better skater than Pierro-Zabotel, but like I said before, despite only being a couple spots below Bartschi in the leading scorer chart I don't got the same expectations, very few people do.
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As for size in general, of course it matters. Yes, there are exceptions, but size is definitely taken into account. Look at Grimaldi, based on talent, speed, determination he was easily a first round pick, probably high first. But he's 5''6' and that's the only reason he wasn't taken in the first, don't buy that his religious views cost him any spots.
His religious views may not have hurt him but don't kid yourself, the way he expresses those views most certainly did. The guys a friken flake.
His religious views may not have hurt him but don't kid yourself, the way he expresses those views most certainly did. The guys a friken flake.
Waste of a good 2nd round pick IMO
Fine, maybe cost him a spot or two but no where near what his size cost him.
I don't know if anyone with that talent could be a waste of a pick though. Worst case scenario is you have to cut ties with him, for a second round pick that would suck but he wouldn't be the only second rounder not to play for his team, on the other hand this guy has more talent than maybe anyone not named Nugent-Hopkins in that draft. As long as he's not causing problems in the locker room, which from all accounts seems to be the case, you know he's not going to go out and party and he's always giving it his all (unlike most draft picks with "attitude problems") so that's a plus. Either way he's a typical boom or bust player with a seemingly higher ceiling than anyone else left on the board, I don't know, I liked the pick.
Anyone who has seen bartschi play know that his numbers aren't inflated because he is playing on a stacked team, but ross' and rattie's numbers are inflated because of playing with bartschi. Watch the portland vs vancouver game friday night at 8 pm on sportsnet and you will see why. He is going to be a top forward for the flames very soon.
It is not as big of a deal when you consider that Baertschi has only played one full season of juniour hockey prior to this one. Crosby and Richards both grew up living, breathing, and learning the Canadian hockey climate and the game.
That seems like a lot of overrated BS as plenty of Euros have no problem coming over to NA and doing well.
Throw in the fact that Baertschi was a late 92 draftee and it does make a huge difference in comparing numbers to other players, especially RNH.
