Kirk Cameron Attacks Stephen Hawking

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Ok, but you're in the bible belt. You know full well it's full of religiousness in the schools. Unless someone is physically harming myself or my family, you can pray to whomever the hell you want and it doesn't bother me. It may change the way I think about you, but I don't lose sleep over it.

So as long as it doesn't harm you or your family, you're basically okay with others having their rights trampled upon?

What principles, in your opinion, are worth standing up for?

[flames85]

Originally Posted by photon

http://sites.google.com/site/thechri...dern-democracy
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...till/myth.html



And kids can still pray in school if they want, it's a constitutionally protected right.



Or a Christian country either, it was to be secular and equal, not a theocracy. Respecting all religions and giving no special treatment to any.

Or you'd be ok with the entire country having to pray to Thor every morning?

Ok, I understand now. Somewhere along the conversation I got caught up in trying to understand why we have let our right to practice christian beliefs in schools be taken away from us. But I see your side. I do respect that everyone has the right to choose.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Dont agree with the bolded part at all.

Well at the very least you shouldn't think that those who do believe in those things are in any way believing in something ridiculous.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by flames85

Ok, I understand now. Somewhere along the conversation I got caught up in trying to understand why we have let our right to practice christian beliefs in schools be taken away from us. But I see your side. I do respect that everyone has the right to choose.

I think that it was everyone here is getting at. One of the perks of living in a western nation is we have freedom of choice. That is also part of what these nations were founded upon.

[flames85]

I feel as though allot of good christians become adamant about discussing with atheists' because some come off as hostile and make unfair comparisons such as the harry potter one. When you can show me that the harry potter novels have been around as long as the bible then you can make those comments.

[flames85]

Originally Posted by Hesla

I think that it was everyone here is getting at. One of the perks of living in a western nation is we have freedom of choice. That is also part of what these nations were founded upon.

Agreed, I think its fair to say that their are radical christians and atheist alike. Who's only purpose is to prove their ideas on the other. When that isn't the case. Rather they are just polluting the image of their fellow believers/non believers.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flames85

I feel as though allot of good christians become adamant about discussing with atheists' because some come off as hostile and make unfair comparisons such as the harry potter one. When you can show me that the harry potter novels have been around as long as the bible then you can make those comments.

How does the age of a particular religion grant it validity? You don't believe in the myths of Zeus or Thor or Isis, right? What makes Jesus any more legitimate than mythical figures from other religions?

[photon]

Originally Posted by flames85

I feel as though allot of good christians become adamant about discussing with atheists' because some come off as hostile and make unfair comparisons such as the harry potter one. When you can show me that the harry potter novels have been around as long as the bible then you can make those comments.

So if I could produce a book that was as old as or older than the Bible that was historically accurate and made supernatural claims about god(s) and saviour(s) and such you would consider it equal to the Bible? You'd believe its claims about god(s) and saviour(s)?

[flames85]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

How does the age of a particular religion grant it validity? You don't believe in the myths of Zeus or Thor or Isis, right? What makes Jesus any more legitimate than mythical figures from other religions?

...and this is exactly what i mean by hostility. My comment was directed at the person who compared God to Harry Potter. That is a ridiculous comparison and is offensive to some. Most of us sane humans understand that Harry Potter is fictional character by FACT. Nobody has proven that God doesn't exist.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flames85

Agreed, I think its fair to say that their are radical christians and atheist alike.

How many examples of murder can you provide that were justified with atheism?

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by flames85

... think of it this way, if you moved to a muslim nation I would anticipate you would be involved in their religious practices. You would not expect them to change their schools to our "public" ways.

Wait, Canada is a Christian nation?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flames85

...and this is exactly what i mean by hostility. My comment was directed at the person who compared God to Harry Potter.

I do not see the distinction you do.

Why is the age of the bible relevant, but not the age of Greek religion?
Because of the strength of convictions of their respective believers?

[photon]

Originally Posted by flames85

...and this is exactly what i mean by hostility. My comment was directed at the person who compared God to Harry Potter. That is a ridiculous comparison and it offensive to some. Most of us sane humans understand that Harry Potter is fictional.

I brought up Harry Potter but I didn't compare Harry Potter to God.

The context was the claim that the Bible is proof of God, and my question would be why is the Bible proof of God but the Harry Potter books not proof of Harry Potter?

Of course we all know Harry Potter is fictional, that's the point of the comparison, it's working from a point where people agree back to where they disagree to figure out where the disagreement comes from.

EDIT: Same with the Isis, Thor, etc comparisons.. it's not meant as disrespectful, it's giving a list of similar things and asking why one is different than the others. It's like asking why someone would vote for a specific candidate vs. the others; there has to be some criteria for choosing one.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

So as long as it doesn't harm you or your family, you're basically okay with others having their rights trampled upon?

What principles, in your opinion, are worth standing up for?

I suppose you can extrapolate that from what I've said, but my point is specifically about this case. If having to hear a prayer during a graduation is an example of right being trampled upon, then yes. If I prayed to a God, I would say a prayer for the feelings of this high school student. I sincerely hope he can get his life back on track after having to go through such hardship.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flames85

...and this is exactly what i mean by hostility. My comment was directed at the person who compared God to Harry Potter. That is a ridiculous comparison and is offensive to some. Most of us sane humans understand that Harry Potter is fictional character by FACT. Nobody has proven that God doesn't exist.

Nobody has proven that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist either.

The burden of proof belongs to the person making a claim. Nobody has to prove that God doesn't exist; the onus is on believers to prove that he does. Until evidence clearly demonstrating the existence of God is presented, then the logical position to take is that he doesn't, just as we don't believe that Zeus, Thor, Isis, and the gods of every other ancient religion exist.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flames85

I feel as though allot of good christians become adamant about discussing with atheists' because some come off as hostile and make unfair comparisons such as the harry potter one.

Since you're a fan of founding principles:

"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes."
-James Madison in a letter to John Taylor

[transplant99]

The PC crowd is alive and well I see....

No matter what the kids motivations were/are/wanna be...his decision was questionable and his reasoning completely suspicious at best.

Just because soemone wants to pray...means nothing. Particularly to those who dont believe to begin with...yet they are making the most noise about this it seems.

If someone says to me or you..."god bless you"...are you or I to be offended? If so, start with Obama cause he ends every speech with it. If someone says "amen" what part of that do you take umbrage with?

The intolerance runs both ways in this situation but only one side has the audacity to call the other out on it. Its the same thing every thread that has this nonsense in it.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The PC crowd is alive and well I see....

No matter what the kids motivations were/are/wanna be...his decision was questionable and his reasoning completely suspicious at best.

Just because soemone wants to pray...means nothing. Particularly to those who dont believe to begin with...yet they are making the most noise about this it seems.

If someone says to me or you..."god bless you"...are you or I to be offended? If so, start with Obama cause he ends every speech with it. If someone says "amen" what part of that do you take umbrage with?

The intolerance runs both ways in this situation but only one side has the audacity to call the other out on it. Its the same thing every thread that has this nonsense in it.

Add to that the "God bless America" song they sing at a lot of sporting events.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The intolerance runs both ways in this situation but only one side has the audacity to call the other out on it. Its the same thing every thread that has this nonsense in it.

False equivalency.

Atheists do not exceed the audacity of "you deserve to burn in hell for eternity."

[MarchHare]

The PC crowd is alive and well I see....

No matter what the kids motivations were/are/wanna be...his decision was questionable and his reasoning completely suspicious at best.

Demanding that his school adhere to the US Constitution and not illegally recite a prayer is questionable and suspicious?