Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I agree with a lot of the points you have made. However, I don't think a new leader and time will erase all when it comes to the Liberal party. The Liberal party "brand" has been significantly damaged as a result of this attempted coalition "coup". Although it certainly was a legal attempt to usurp the ruling Conservative party, it had a real bad "smell" to it.

Agreed it won't erase all, however with the broad base of support that party really has, they don't need to erase everything, just enough to win a few more seats. The Liberal party should have been at an all time low after the scandals and Martin looking rather clueless only to be replaced by a complete dunderhead. The Conservative party should have won handily, but they didn't.

As a result I'd submit the current Liberal support is about as low as they'll ever go in seats. Contrast this with the end of the Mulroney era where Campbell stepped in, ran as horrible a campaign as Dion did, and was firmly and completely destroyed. I would have expected the same to have happened to Dion...and perhap it would have in hindsight had he been given a few more weeks of rope during a longer campaign. I will concede they are from different eras and The Bloc does change the political landscape from 1993 however I think my point of basic support is still valid.

A lot of people will remember that when it comes to the next election... and they will remember that Ignatieff didn't speak out against it.

We're a little insulated from things out here, however I perceive a large portion of at least the Ontario vote is not enthused with 'the robot in the sweater from out west' and if they had a real alternative would not vote for him. What's happened in the past isn't remembered by everyone and all things can be justified or spun as required. Ignatieff can distance himself from the coalition of stupidity as easily as Harper was able to justify calling an earlier than promised election...which ironically was the catalyst for all this mess. A lot of people will remember that too.

I think whichever of the two parties has a leader who has a personality and can articulate a clear platform with a minimum of rehtoric will win over the majority of the country. I don't believe we have a leader who can do that right now....that begs the question, looking forward, who replaces Harper?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I think whichever of the two parties has a leader who has a personality and can articulate a clear platform with a minimum of rehtoric will win over the majority of the country. I don't believe we have a leader who can do that right now....that begs the question, looking forward, who replaces Harper?

I think its probably a bit early to be digging Harper's grave.
But.... if and when there is a Conservative leadership convention (which probably won't happen til Harper is defeated or his minority government is significantly reduced in the number of seats), I expect McKay will run, maybe the former premier of NB, Bernard Lord, I've always been impressed with Moore from BC (as to the way he handles himself), and who know... maybe even Charest from Quebec.
I'm sure we will also getting a few Ontario MP's that will throw their hat in the ring.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I think its probably a bit early to be digging Harper's grave.
But.... if and when there is a Conservative leadership convention (which probably won't happen til Harper is defeated or his minority government is significantly reduced in the number of seats), I expect McKay will run, maybe the former premier of NB, Bernard Lord, I've always been impressed with Moore from BC (as to the way he handles himself), and who know... maybe even Charest from Quebec.
I'm sure we will also getting a few Ontario MP's that will throw their hat in the ring.

What a coup that would be if the leader of the Quebec provincial Liberal Party defected back to the federal Conservatives!

[FurnaceFace]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't implying he'd be whisked out the door any time soon, I was just wondering if there was anyone on the horizon.

Forgot about Lord, he's one to watch.

I've always held out hope for Charest however I think he's comfortable as Premier. Shame cuz I think he'd have no problem winning a majority and winning back a bunch of The Bloc vote.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What a coup that would be if the leader of the Quebec provincial Liberal Party defected back to the federal Conservatives!

Wouldn't the two coups cancel out? Negative coup points in losing him to the Provincial Liberals, positive coup points in getting him back. I don't think you can really say that though because provincial politics is different, especially in Quebec.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I think its probably a bit early to be digging Harper's grave.
But.... if and when there is a Conservative leadership convention (which probably won't happen til Harper is defeated or his minority government is significantly reduced in the number of seats), I expect McKay will run, maybe the former premier of NB, Bernard Lord, I've always been impressed with Moore from BC (as to the way he handles himself), and who know... maybe even Charest from Quebec.
I'm sure we will also getting a few Ontario MP's that will throw their hat in the ring.

Charest's time in federal politics is over. Going to throw a different name out there from Quebec.

If the conservatives ever want to make any strides in Quebec they must get Mario Dumont on their side. He's young, charismatic and his poilicies are right of centre (exactly like Harper's). The party that he single-handedly lead to a near victory in the last Quebec election is now falling apart with his MNA's crossing the floor after Dumont's support of Harper in the last federal election. The ADQ will probably get destroyed tonight and it's would be the right time for Dumont to jump.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Charest's time in federal politics is over. Going to throw a different name out there from Quebec.

If the conservatives ever want to make any strides in Quebec they must get Mario Dumont on their side. He's young, charismatic and his poilicies are right of centre (exactly like Harper's). The party that he single-handedly lead to a near victory in the last Quebec election is now falling apart with his MNA's crossing the floor after Dumont's support of Harper in the last federal election. The ADQ will probably get destroyed tonight and it's would be the right time for Dumont to jump.

As an aside... What is it with Quebec's refusal to vote for anyone who isn't French? Why do English politicians always have to pander over them to get their votes?

I have nothing against French people. I have friends from Quebec. Even my step-mother is French, she's from Chateauguay. This isn't a redneck thing or whatever.

It's just simple frustration at the Province of Quebec holding everyone back. We get it. We know they're special and distinct and on and on and on. Just drop the halfway crap. Either they're Canadian or they're Quebecor... but enough picking whichever side suits whichever moment all the time.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

As an aside... What is it with Quebec's refusal to vote for anyone who isn't French? Why do English politicians always have to pander over them to get their votes?

I have nothing against French people. I have friends from Quebec. Even my step-mother is French, she's from Chateauguay. This isn't a redneck thing or whatever.

It's just simple frustration at the Province of Quebec holding everyone back. We get it. We know they're special and distinct and on and on and on. Just drop the halfway crap. Either they're Canadian or they're Quebecor... but enough picking whichever side suits whichever moment all the time.

Alberta's not that different.

Who are the last 5-6 guys Alberta's have voted for?

Harper
Day
Manning
Mulrouney
Clark
Diefenbaker

I can't remember farther back. With the exception of Mulrouney, they are all from Alberta/Sask right?

The difference is Alberta has 28 seats and Quebec has 75.
But it really all boils down to Ontario. If no party can dominate Ontario then it'll always be a minority.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Alberta's not that different.

Who are the last 5-6 guys Alberta's have voted for?

Harper
Day
Manning
Mulrouney
Clark
Diefenbaker

I can't remember farther back. With the exception of Mulrouney, they are all from Alberta/Sask right?

The difference is Alberta has 28 seats and Quebec has 75.
But it really all boils down to Ontario. If no party can dominate Ontario then it'll always be a minority.

Harper was born and raised in Ontario. He didn't move out west until after university.

Stockwell Day was born in Ontario. He spent his early years in the Maritimes and his high school years in Ottawa and Montreal, where he graduated.

Mulrooney was born and raised in Quebec.

Clark was born and raised in High River AB but as soon as he could he got out of here and moved to Ontario.

Diefenbaker was born and raised in Saskatchewan

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Harper was born and raised in Ontario. He didn't move out west until after university.

Stockwell Day was born in Ontario. He spent his early years in the Maritimes and his high school years in Ottawa and Montreal, where he graduated.

Mulrooney was born and raised in Quebec.

Clark was born and raised in High River AB but as soon as he could he got out of here and moved to Ontario.

Diefenbaker was born and raised in Saskatchewan

I meant where their ridings were.

Canada really should be 4 countries

[SebC]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I think Ignatieff's strategy will be to not formally kill the coalition agreement (which would insult NDP and Bloc voters, two groups he would hope to woo), but rather, simply not force a confidence vote.

Isn't the budget always a confidence vote? I'm guessing this is my error or just a misunderstanding, but I'd appreciate it if you clear that up.

[metallicat]

As for a new CPC leader, and I don't think we need one as Harper is doing a fine job as PM, what about that head of the Magna corporation? I've heard she's quite the up and comer, and could spark some new life into the Conservatives.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

As for a new CPC leader, and I don't think we need one as Harper is doing a fine job as PM, what about that head of the Magna corporation? I've heard she's quite the up and comer, and could spark some new life into the Conservatives.

I disagree, he's not doing a good job in my estimation. He doesn't know his boundaries and has not been able to bring the country together in any kind of fashion. He's pragmatic, which matters out west, but he has no personality, which matters out east. There's my bias for the day, I know.

He also hasn't responded in any important way to the economy downturn. He just seems to react when he has to.

If he couldn't get a majority vs Dion he has no hope. I also think if Iggy gets the liberal post, squashes the coalition, he has a good shot at a majority after ... as one person put it on here a week ago, Harper eats a economic turd sandwich for 18 months.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by SebC

Isn't the budget always a confidence vote? I'm guessing this is my error or just a misunderstanding, but I'd appreciate it if you clear that up.

Ah, bad use of language on my part. What I meant was that I think he'll stop short of taking the government down on a confidence vote. When I reread my sentence, I'm not sure how I thought that it conveyed what I meant it to convey.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Alberta's not that different.

Who are the last 5-6 guys Alberta's have voted for?

Harper
Day
Manning
Mulrouney
Clark
Diefenbaker

I can't remember farther back. With the exception of Mulrouney, they are all from Alberta/Sask right?

The difference is Alberta has 28 seats and Quebec has 75.
But it really all boils down to Ontario. If no party can dominate Ontario then it'll always be a minority.

I think your point is still valid- when has Alberta generally voted for somebody who speaks French as their first language.

The one anomoly is indeed Mulroney, but as I said a few hundred pages back, he spoke English with no trace of a French accent. Even the name of his home riding made me think of BC before Quebec. It wasn't until I was in high school, watching a Jets @ Nordiques game on CBC-french and heard a news clip with him speaking French that I realized he was French.

I've said before my Canada includes Quebec; no matter what I think they should do with their views on seperation. However on that note I echo the thought that we need a leader who literally speaks for all Canadians. Charest was one I brought up before, and while he may be too focused on being Quebec's Premier; I still think we need to find somebody who can bring Canada together. And of course under the Conservative banner.

[Table 5]

The Daily Show had a segment on this issue last night....after showing a clip of Stephan Dion, John said "Hey, I didn't know Celine Dion had a sister???".

Fair or not, he sure does have that "weakling" vibe. I'm not suggesting a leader needs to be physically tough, but even I feel like checking the guy into a gym locker every time I see him.

[Resolute 14]

Another Liberal suggests the coalition is dying:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics...81606-sun.html

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The Daily Show had a segment on this issue last night....after showing a clip of Stephan Dion, John said "Hey, I didn't know Celine Dion had a sister???".

Fair or not, he sure does have that "weakling" vibe. I'm not suggesting a leader needs to be physically tough, but even I feel like checking the guy into a gym locker every time I see him.

Here are some more hi lites.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc...liament_081209

[Bertuzzied]

Well the Liberals just got stronger.

Ignatieff wins Liberal leadership without a fight.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics...684061-cp.html

[FanIn80]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics...684061-cp.html

Ignatieff is the new Lib leader.


Edit: Doh. I just got Ignatuzzied.