Mark "Fricken" Jankowski (aka The Big Jankowski)

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It's not obtuse at all. Anyone claiming the Flames made a mistake / went off the board before the book is written on the player (and it isn't), is claiming they'd have known better than those amateur scouts who actually watch these prospects for a living. There are overreactions every year by fanbases when a draft doesn't follow the CSS rankings (and it never does). Words used are "reach" and "steal". But drafts shake out the way they do for reasons that people on a forum are not privy to. Scouts make mistakes all the time, whether their draft picks resemble the "rankings" doesn't matter because the rankings themselves are made by scouts who make mistakes all the time.

It's as arrogant to think you've got a better read on not only Jankowski, but Teravainen/Maatta/Hertl etc than the staff of Tod Button, and yes, everyone's favorite "I don't even know what he does" John Weisbrod. These guys watch every player live multiple times, and they watch things that aren't seen on camera, they watch the bad as much as they watch the good, and their job is to project long term, not short-term. We don't usually do any of that.

Personally I don't even think the book on Sven Baertschi is written, and this is a project player from a more recent draft.

This exact same logic is being used when everyone declare Kylington a steal and the team's top prospect because he was ranked way above where the Flames ended up getting him.

I'm fine with disagreeing with it, but need to be consistent in applying it to players picked above where they were slotted and also players picked later than expected.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

This exact same logic is being used when everyone declare Kylington a steal and the team's top prospect because he was ranked way above where the Flames ended up getting him.

I'm fine with disagreeing with it, but need to be consistent in applying it to players picked above where they were slotted and also players picked later than expected.

People are calling Kylington a steal because he has quickly demonstrated that the concerns about his defensive play were overblown (or corrected, take your pick).

He dropped for valid reasons. Those reasons are quickly dissipating - thus, steal.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

People are calling Kylington a steal because he has quickly demonstrated that the concerns about his defensive play were overblown (or corrected, take your pick).

He dropped for valid reasons. Those reasons are quickly dissipating - thus, steal.

He's still pretty weak physically, he makes poor decisions that lead to turning the puck over, he's not physical and while his defensive game has shown improvement, it is still pretty suspect. I like Kylington and am thrilled we got him so late but calling him a steal at this point in time is a great exaggeration. Until he is playing top 4 in the NHL he will not be a steal.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...aft/55649854/1

Interesting in this mock draft by the head scout for Redline Report they have Jankowski going at 15 as a "shoot-for-the-home-run upside type of pick." Done before the draft.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

He's still pretty weak physically, he makes poor decisions that lead to turning the puck over, he's not physical and while his defensive game has shown improvement, it is still pretty suspect. I like Kylington and am thrilled we got him so late but calling him a steal at this point in time is a great exaggeration. Until he is playing top 4 in the NHL he will not be a steal.

Agreed.

He does make brain farts still on a regular basis, but the frequency is a lot less. He'll get better over time, but it'll take some time still. Probably a full year in Stockton next year before he's ready after that. He may get the Gaudreau/Arnold treatment if the Flames tear it down at the end of the month, where he'll get a game or two maybe at the end of the season to show him exactly how far he has to go to.

In terms of why he's labelled by some as a steal is due to the fact that the amount of talent he has is practically unheard of at 60, even with the warts.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Agreed.

He does make brain farts still on a regular basis, but the frequency is a lot less. He'll get better over time, but it'll take some time still. Probably a full year in Stockton next year before he's ready after that. He may get the Gaudreau/Arnold treatment if the Flames tear it down at the end of the month, where he'll get a game or two maybe at the end of the season to show him exactly how far he has to go to.

In terms of why he's labelled by some as a steal is due to the fact that the amount of talent he has is practically unheard of at 60, even with the warts.

Oh I understand why it's being said, but it seems pointless to call someone a steal or a bust until they succeed or fail at the NHL level

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Oh I understand why it's being said, but it seems pointless to call someone a steal or a bust until they succeed or fail at the NHL level

If you get more than expected value for the draft position (in this case, 60th) it's a steal.

That's what it means. If you want to wait until he's in the NHL that's fine. But it means what it means.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If you get more than expected value for the draft position (in this case, 60th) it's a steal.

That's what it means. If you want to wait until he's in the NHL that's fine. But it means what it means.

Yeah but determining that 7 months after being drafted is completely useless. Remember when people thought Ryan Howse was a steal?

[AC]

I thought we collectively agreed to never mention Ryan Howse again.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by AC

I thought we collectively agreed to never mention Ryan Howse again.

I've never really been apart of the collective

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Yeah but determining that 7 months after being drafted is completely useless. Remember when people thought Ryan Howse was a steal?

We did?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...aft/55649854/1

Interesting in this mock draft by the head scout for Redline Report they have Jankowski going at 15 as a "shoot-for-the-home-run upside type of pick." Done before the draft.

That mock has us taking Maata at 14, too.

The 2012 draft looks awful. The Flames drafted a 6 ft 2 170 lb beanpole out of Canadian high school hockey.

Now, they have a 6 ft 3 200+ lb NCAA national champion centre who is still barely older than 3-year NHL veteran Sean Monahan.

Olli Maata has missed time due to cancer. Tomas Hertl hasn't done much outside his rooster game. Teravainen is a good player, but it doesn't make sense to draft him a year after picking Baertschi and Gaudreau. Cody Ceci is decent, but certainly would only ever be the 4th best D on this team over the next decade (Ditto Maata).

I've always struggled to find an NHL comparable to Jankowski - I don't like the Nieuwendyk comparisons, but my memories of Nieuwendyk are almost entirely of him in his late 30s/40s. Is Pittsburgh-era Jordan Staal reasonable? Would you take Pittsburgh-era Staal over the players we could have drafted? I know I would.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

That mock has us taking Maata at 14, too.

The 2012 draft looks awful. The Flames drafted a 6 ft 2 170 lb beanpole out of Canadian high school hockey.

Now, they have a 6 ft 3 200+ lb NCAA national champion centre who is still barely older than 3-year NHL veteran Sean Monahan.

Olli Maata has missed time due to cancer. Tomas Hertl hasn't done much outside his rooster game. Teravainen is a good player, but it doesn't make sense to draft him a year after picking Baertschi and Gaudreau. Cody Ceci is decent, but certainly would only ever be the 4th best D on this team over the next decade (Ditto Maata).

I've always struggled to find an NHL comparable to Jankowski - I don't like the Nieuwendyk comparisons, but my memories of Nieuwendyk are almost entirely of him in his late 30s/40s. Is Pittsburgh-era Jordan Staal reasonable? Would you take Pittsburgh-era Staal over the players we could have drafted? I know I would.

These comparisons are all on the supposition that Jankowski will play in the NHL. I hope he does but he's still a prospect.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We did?

after scoring 50 goals for Chilliwack, yeah I think everyone thought he was

[Trailer Fire]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

These comparisons are all on the supposition that Jankowski will play in the NHL. I hope he does but he's still a prospect.

Just to clarify, any prospect comparison is on the supposition that aforementioned prospect will play in the NHL. It isn't just exclusive to Jankowski just because you don't like the pick.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

Just to clarify, any prospect comparison is on the supposition that aforementioned prospect will play in the NHL. It isn't just exclusive to Jankowski just because you don't like the pick.

He's comparing him to Nieuwendyk and Jordan Staal, not other prospects. Staal made the NHL as a 18 year old and that ship has gone.

Like I've said, I hope he turns out but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

He's comparing him to Nieuwendyk and Jordan Staal, not other prospects.

Like I've said, I hope he turns out but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

You missed the point completely. All prospects get compared to current NHL'ers, nothing different is that regard.

When it happens no one is getting ahead of themselves ever. Not surprisingly you only take issue with it when Jankowski is involved. To be honest, when you say you hope he turns out, I flat out don't believe you.

[sureLoss]

My understanding is that prospect comparisons, in general, are meant to be style comparisons. Not meant to say he will be the next Nieuwendyk literally. just elements of his game remind of how Nieuwendyk played the game.

I guess this is why people hate to make prospect comparable, because when they make them and the prospect doesn't live up to the expectations, critics come back and say they were dead wrong.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You missed the point completely. All prospects get compared to current NHL'ers, nothing different is that regard.

When it happens no one is getting ahead of themselves ever. Not surprisingly you only take issue with it when Jankowski is involved. To be honest, when you say you hope he turns out, I flat out don't believe you.

Well we have a problem. I'm a Flames fan so why would I wish him to fail. The only reason in your little mind is to win an argument and to tell the truth I don't like these arguments because they devolve with people like you calling others liars etc.

If he had of said style wise as a comparable, that would have been fine but he didn't.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We did?

Yeah, this board was all over his stick for a while. Same with guys like Boyd, Trubachev, Tarathukin and countless others. Fans overrate their own prospects, especially when the cupboards are bare.