2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

True, it’s a lot of value going to New Jersey - but 7th overall returning Jamie Drysdale is different than a typical pick. It’s the type of trade I’d want the Flames to target - Buffalo’s 8th overall or New Jersey’s 7th overall would be my prime targets in a Johnny trade.

If they go that route with a Gaudreau trade sure, but they need to target more than just that pick is what I'm saying. The Flames are the ones taking all the risk there with an unproven prospect that could turn into the next Julius Honka or Sam Morin, where as the Devils are getting a 27 year old who's put up a point per game over the last 5 NHL seasons. The proven commodity should have more value than the unproven one. Despite how shiny all these new toys look as the draft gets close, the fact is the vast majority will never even come close to the ceilings they are currently being given.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If they go that route with a Gaudreau trade sure, but they need to target more than just that pick is what I'm saying. The Flames are the ones taking all the risk there with an unproven prospect that could turn into the next Julius Honka or Sam Morin, where as the Devils are getting a 27 year old who's put up a point per game over the last 5 NHL seasons. The proven commodity should have more value than the unproven one. Despite how shiny all these new toys look as the draft gets close, the fact is the vast majority will never even come close to the ceilings they are currently being given.

Could definitely be more going to Calgary in it - but I’m looking at Drysdale (or Perfetti or Rossi) all as can’t miss prospects, so the way I have it drawn up isn’t all that far off from the deal that brought Iggy to town.

Bias towards those three prospects from my side for sure.

[Funkhouser]

At this stage, I want to move on from Gaudreau regardless of if we can sign Hall. He appears to be past his best before date.

If we can get a Cozens or top 10 pick, I would pull the trigger.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

At this stage, I want to move on from Gaudreau regardless of if we can sign Hall. He appears to be past his best before date.

If we can get a Cozens or top 10 pick, I would pull the trigger.

I think Johnny is a great player. But he just cant be the best player on the team. He belongs on the wing as the best player on the 2nd line or 2nd best player on the 1st line. He is just slotted wrong and asked to do to much.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I think Johnny is a great player. But he just cant be the best player on the team. He belongs on the wing as the best player on the 2nd line or 2nd best player on the 1st line. He is just slotted wrong and asked to do to much.

I would add that -at this point- he can't be the best player on the team anymore. He certainly used to be and could be the guy the team leans on.

[Abatedmean]

With the way Johnny is playing right now. How many points do you think he will throw up next year? What if he continues his play, is there anyway we see him drop to second pp. I dont have the numbers to back it up however it feels most of his points come from power play. So if we remove him from it perhaps he can spend more time figuring out 5v5. Secondly, more so the point, what will his next contract look like if this is the new johnny?

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I would add that -at this point- he can't be the best player on the team anymore. He certainly used to be and could be the guy the team leans on.

Very true.
I think BT will not likely look to trade him, but he will listen and maybe pull the trigger on a deal. I think a lot of teams will be interested and cone calling. We are emotionally attached and he probably has more value than our disappointment allows us to attach to him.

[Enoch Root]

He USED to be the best player on the team but now he CAN'T be?

He gets all his points on the PP so we should take him off the PP?

The hot takes on Gaudreau are getting pretty ridiculous. Yesterday was his best game of the playoffs so far. Monahan too.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He USED to be the best player on the team but now he CAN'T be?

He gets all his points on the PP so we should take him off the PP?

The hot takes on Gaudreau are getting pretty ridiculous. Yesterday was his best game of the playoffs so far. Monahan too.

He used to be the most dynamic offensive player on the team...he is no longer.
This, based on the past year, is more of a fact than an opinion.

Maybe he lost a step and can regain it.
Maybe the league figured out how to neutralize him and he can adapt.
Maybe he is emotionally checked out and can re-engage on a different team.

Lots of maybes, but the fact remains that he is not the player he was. In my opinion, sell while there may still be value.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

He used to be the most dynamic offensive player on the team...he is no longer.
This, based on the past year, is more of a fact than an opinion.

Maybe he lost a step and can regain it.
Maybe the league figured out how to neutralize him and he can adapt.
Maybe he is emotionally checked out and can re-engage on a different team.

Lots of maybes, but the fact remains that he is not the player he was. In my opinion, sell while there may still be value.

Yes, but the fact that he used to be suggests that he in fact CAN be. That's the point.

Unless it is something physical, like him losing a step. However, that is not the case.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The hot takes on Gaudreau are getting pretty ridiculous. Yesterday was his best game of the playoffs so far. Monahan too.

Yup, I believe that John had himself a solid game yesterday. Especially as the game wore on. Calgary needs him to stay engaged for the whole game and I think he's getting there.

Not Monahan though. He was not good yesterday.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames won't make any trades that make them worse next season...save your breath

or fingers?

Depends, it's a weird off-season.

If they think they have the inside track on signing Taylor Hall, then I do think the Flames look to trade Gaudreau for futures.

The flat cap for three seasons, and the looming expansion draft play a role when looking at the package for Gaudreau. You don't want to trade Gaudreau for a piece just to have to expose somebody else on the roster in the expansion draft.

Doesn't mean that it's just a single pick but I do think the package could be more futures weighted. Something like:

- 1st
- Prospect (Quality depends on the quality of the first)
- Youngish Roster Forward

[Poe969]

Saying he can be is the same as saying he won't be. Both are possible. IMO it's time to trade him not only because of his uncertain skill level moving forward but because of a multitude of reasons.

He seems to have lost his drive in most games. Not all games, but he doesn't look the same.
His contract status moving forward.
Other teams needing to make additions (Buff, NJ and a slew of other teams)
The increased odds of signing Hall, another good LW, as a free agent.
The team's need for change. Unless they win the cup this year, or at least go deep a couple rounds, the team needs a major change.
Positional need. If a team is going to give up a high end C prospect like Cozens, the team needs to jump at the chance to strengthen that position.

There are a lot of reasons to trade Johnny if things don't improve these playoffs, even if they do because it might boost his value. Their window is closing with the current core IMO, the team is not a contender and they need to improve. If they can improve by trading Johnny or anyone else, they should. Some people may say that trading Johnny doesn't improve the team because he's good. They're right...if there is 0 return or asset gain. Trading Johnny for 2 or 3 strong pieces helps and then if they can sign Hall, who isn't as good, they still come out on top. I've said it before but it's like trading a $20 bill for 3 $5 and a $10.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, but the fact that he used to be suggests that he in fact CAN be. That's the point.

Unless it is something physical, like him losing a step. However, that is not the case.

I don't think he can be the best player on the team anymore occasional flashes aside. He hasn't been for what, year and a half now? I think Tkachuk has passed him in that category. Doesn't mean he can't be a difference maker.

[Roof-Daddy]

I do not know what Tre should do with this team if they get knocked out in the 1st round again. It's a confusing mess. I honestly cannot tell if they are a couple of solid tweaks away from taking the next step, if it needs a major retooling, or if they need to tear it down and start over.

The D is a mess. They are probably losing Brodie, Forbort, Gustafsson and Hamonic plus Gio is almost 37 and showing major signs of a serious drop off.

We can't go into next season with Rittich as the main goalie can we? He's the only one signed though for now, and he's too expensive to be just a back up.

Up front you can't make any major additions without moving a big piece out because there isn't enough cap space and the defense and goaltending will suffer as a result.

I was 99% sure it was time to move on from Bennett but now I'm stuck between selling high and "holy ####, he's finally arrived, let's keep him and play him at C with Dube and Tkachuk next year".

Mangi and Dube look like they're blossoming, so maybe you don't mess with the forward group too much and just add to D and goaltending?

And to top it all off, any decent addition anywhere to the line up is only going to result in the loss of a better player for nothing at the end of next season when Seattle comes calling.

[AC]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Yup, I believe that John had himself a solid game yesterday. Especially as the game wore on. Calgary needs him to stay engaged for the whole game and I think he's getting there.

Not Monahan though. He was not good yesterday.

I don't agree with this.

Johnny ends up with an empty net goal on the PP thanks to Monahan and Bennett fighting for the loose puck and banging it over to him. Monahan also had the primary assist on Bennett's goal.

Monahan was physically engaged again, especially defensively. He also had that rush where he started by outmuscling a Star for a loose puck, fighting through checking out of our zone, and setting Johnny up on that 2 on 1, before Johnny's failed pass back ended what would have been the 5-3 goal.

Johnny also had the glorious chance in OT and didn't get the shot off he wanted. He did have that one nice pass back to Monahan in the 1st off the rush though.

Overall I once again liked Monahan's game more and thought Gaudreau was the beneficiary of his teammates' hardwork moreso than having a particularly good game himself.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I do not know what Tre should do with this team if they get knocked out in the 1st round again. It's a confusing mess. I honestly cannot tell if they are a couple of solid tweaks away from taking the next step, if it needs a major retooling, or if they need to tear it down and start over.

The D is a mess. They are probably losing Brodie, Forbort, Gustafsson and Hamonic plus Gio is almost 37 and showing major signs of a serious drop off.

We can't go into next season with Rittich as the main goalie can we? He's the only one signed though for now, and he's too expensive to be just a back up.

Up front you can't make any major additions without moving a big piece out because there isn't enough cap space and the defense and goaltending will suffer as a result.

I was 99% sure it was time to move on from Bennett but now I'm stuck between selling high and "holy ####, he's finally arrived, let's keep him and play him at C with Dube and Tkachuk next year".

Mangi and Dube look like they're blossoming, so maybe you don't mess with the forward group too much and just add to D and goaltending?

And to top it all off, any decent addition anywhere to the line up is only going to result in the loss of a better player for nothing at the end of next season when Seattle comes calling.

I think there is a pretty clear path to a quick re-tool here.

Forwards:

Move Forward Pieces: Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Bennett, Dube, Mangiapane

Potential Trade Chips: Gaudreau, Backlund, Jankowski

Veterans You Probably Can't/Won't Move: Lucic, Ryan

Flames UFAs: Rieder, Rinaldo

UFAs to Target: Hall

Prospects: Gawdin, Phillips, Ruzicka, Pelletier, Zavgorodny, Emilio Pettersen

So up front I think we have 6 pretty good pieces as go forward pieces, some promising young prospects, and potential to add another young core piece if they decide to move Gaudreau. Plus lots of smoke about the Flames being very interested in Taylor Hall.

Defense

Move Forward Pieces: Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki

Potential Trade Chips: N/A

Veterans You Probably Can't/Won't Move: Giordano

Flames UFAs: Brodie, Hamonic, Forbort, Gustafsson

External UFAs to Target: Dylan Demelo (3rd pair RH)

Prospects: Yelesin, Poolman, Mackey, Kinnvall

I don't mind the defense moving forward with three good young pieces. I'd look at bringing back one of our own UFAs (probably Brodie or Gustafsson) and hopefully bring in an RH d-man like Demelo via UFA.

Goalie:

Move Forward Pieces: Rittich

Potential Trade Chips: N/A

Veterans You Probably Can't/Won't Move: N/A

Flames UFAs: Talbot

External UFAs to Target: Lehner, Markstrom

Prospects: Wolf, Zagidulin

I still like Rittich, if you can add a Lehner or Markstrom then that's great, if not I'd be okay with bringing back Talbot on a 1 or 2 year deal.

So I think the path to a quick re-tool is there. They just need to have a really good draft this year (picks and trades), and keep bringing up some of these young forward prospects.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I do not know what Tre should do with this team if they get knocked out in the 1st round again. It's a confusing mess. I honestly cannot tell if they are a couple of solid tweaks away from taking the next step, if it needs a major retooling, or if they need to tear it down and start over.

The D is a mess. They are probably losing Brodie, Forbort, Gustafsson and Hamonic plus Gio is almost 37 and showing major signs of a serious drop off.

We can't go into next season with Rittich as the main goalie can we? He's the only one signed though for now, and he's too expensive to be just a back up.

Up front you can't make any major additions without moving a big piece out because there isn't enough cap space and the defense and goaltending will suffer as a result.

I was 99% sure it was time to move on from Bennett but now I'm stuck between selling high and "holy ####, he's finally arrived, let's keep him and play him at C with Dube and Tkachuk next year".

Mangi and Dube look like they're blossoming, so maybe you don't mess with the forward group too much and just add to D and goaltending?

And to top it all off, any decent addition anywhere to the line up is only going to result in the loss of a better player for nothing at the end of next season when Seattle comes calling.

I'm pretty open to moving on from a lot of the core - barring a miracle run. I think this year's draft is a pretty excellent time to do it as well.

The defence has Valimaki, Andersson and Hanifin going forward - that's not awful. If we can add in Jamie Drysdale I think we're right back into a "damn our defence is really good" situation with some young stars (Valimaki, Drysdale) and prime aged defenders (Hanifin, Andersson). I want our Heiskanen/Makar - and we don't have one. I'm not completely in love with Hanifin and if we're talking someone else coming in and making a big offer for him (incl. a top 10 pick in this year's draft - again, this is the draft to do it in), then I do that and turn to re-signing Brodie.

In net this team needs to go after Robin Lehner or Jacob Markstrom (heavy bias towards Lehner on my end). Lock them up for term and hope Wolf continues to develop. He'll need a good veteran to help him break into the league anyways. So next year: Lehner + Rittich. If we come back with Talbot and Rittich, we just won't improve - and I'm tired of this team standing still.

Up front I think you start prioritizing a new core that has a "win by any means necessary" attitude. That means the new core is Bennett, Tkachuk, Dube, Lindholm, Mangiapane and I still think Monahan fits in there (I see the dude trying - he's working hard, but I honestly think he and Lindholm are both being hurt by Johnny's inability to carry the puck and his complete lack of ability to play defence). That's 6 forwards locked in for the expansion draft's 7 slots. If we can snag Hall, then there you go - that's the 7. Drafting Lapierre also gives you another bullet at the centre ice position - and it may still end up that Dube returns to centre so then we have Dube - Bennett - Monahan, which could be good - but Lapierre (one of the players I've perhaps irrationally fallen in love with heading to the draft) is another opportunity to snag a centre.

Lindholm got called last night for a bit of a phantom cross-check and yeah it sucks, but at the same time I think it's good to have players who are laying those cross-checks. Ditto with Bennett's "charge". This team needs to get away from playing vanilla, passive hockey. Speed, skill and aggression should be the identity of the team going forward.

[Vinny01]

I have been a huge Bennett fan and supporter but I definitely leaning toward selling high this offseason. He just isn’t close to the same player during the season nor can anyone play that style for an entire season.

Johnny and Bennett package that can get a big return. One player is ppg flashy star during the regular season and the other is a playoff beast.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I have been a huge Bennett fan and supporter but I definitely leaning toward selling high this offseason. He just isn’t close to the same player during the season nor can anyone play that style for an entire season.

Johnny and Bennett package that can get a big return. One player is ppg flashy star during the regular season and the other is a playoff beast.

How can you say that though? That’s once again ignoring the circumstances he’s been put in during the regular season. He has been playing wing to a player who is now scratched/won’t be qualified.

This sell-high notion is nonsense to me. The underlying numbers show he’s solid and has been hurt by poor linemates (and they have been truly poor linemates - he has had to play with the biggest anchors this team has had year in and year out), as well as some discipline issues due to immaturity/frustration. He’s now getting an opportunity to play at his natural position with actual NHL players on his line and it’s working.