Alberta Politics Thread v2

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Dude go have some sex or something.

Mother might not approve.

[CaptainCrunch]

Enbridge 3 delay expected to be a big slam to Alberta's oil industry.


I thought that this one was for sure supposed to be operating this year?


https://calgarysun.com/business/ener...box=1551568704

In a major blow to the Canadian oil industry, Enbridge Inc. now expects the replacement and expansion of its Line 3 crude oil pipeline to be in service about one year later than expected.


The project, previously slated to start shipping crude in the fourth quarter of this year, is now expected to enter service in the second half of 2020, the Calgary-based company said Friday. Construction is being pushed back because the Minnesota permitting process won’t be complete until November, and the federal permits won’t be received until as long as 60 days after that.

The delay is a crushing setback for Canadian oil producers, who have suffered from a lack of pipeline space that has made it difficult to ship their crude to refineries, hammering prices. Enbridge’s Line 3 is particularly important because the Alberta government was counting on its startup this year to let it end mandated production cuts that were implemented to cope with a glut of crude.

I remember Notley telling us that this was a major saving event for shipping oil.


I guess its back to single meat for us all.

[GGG]

This is why Notleys rail plan is important. It provides an alternative to deal with these types of delays. This setback is not good news.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Dion

This has to be drive-by worthy right?
Thread is ramping up again!!

[DiracSpike]

Such ####ing bull####. Not a surprise when the governor of the state vows to stop it. ####ing corrupt piece of #### there's no reason to oppose replacing an old pipeline with a new one unless you're getting paid to oppose. This is why we need TMX ASAP. #### sakes. ####ing emergency and anyone who doesn't see it is a moron.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

This has to be drive-by worthy right?
Thread is ramping up again!!

He’s living in your head and isn’t paying the bills

[Johnny Makarov]

[]QUOTE=The Fonz;7018347]He’s living in your head and isn’t paying the bills

[img]https://i.imgflip.com/22s5y9.jpg[/img[/QUOTE]

Hmmm more like living in my basement and using up all my bandwidth surfing right wing sites.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Zarley

This is what happens after 15 years of unrestrained spending by PC and now NDP governments. We've had a leadership vacuum where our political leaders are terrified to make responsible prudent decisions. We need to act like adults and live within our means as a province. Poor Jim Prentice proposed belt tightening and got torched at the polls (although it was more of a protest against years of poor PC performance than anything). Just awful decision making since Ralph held up the "paid in full" sign in 2004.

To be fair, the manner in which Klein achieved "paid in full" didn't exactly set things up for success. You can save a lot of money by never doing oil changes, or replacing your car tires, painting your house, replacing appliances when they break down, eating nothing but ramen at every single meal, etc. - but it comes back to bite you in the ass when you get whatever disease is associated with eating such a terrible diet and your car breaks down on the way to the airport for your flight to the States for a treatment that you're paying for by selling your house for less than it should be worse due to shoddy maintenance because the treatment isn't offered at home because our healthcare system was gutted.

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

It doesn't matter if they are at Kal Tire or a hospital, they are campaigning man. With public dollars. Just get on with the effing election, time's up for the NDP.

That's where the "outrage" is coming from.

I'm sure all of you same people were similarly outraged every other time this has been done, which is incidentally before every single election in the history of democracy...

It is certainly not commendable behaviour, but neither is ignoring common sense in your outrage.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Enbridge 3 delay expected to be a big slam to Alberta's oil industry.

I thought that this one was for sure supposed to be operating this year?

https://calgarysun.com/business/ener...box=1551568704

I remember Notley telling us that this was a major saving event for shipping oil.


I guess its back to single meat for us all.

Out of curiosity, has Kenney offered any ideas for how he would have prevented this?

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Such ####ing bull####. Not a surprise when the governor of the state vows to stop it. ####ing corrupt piece of #### there's no reason to oppose replacing an old pipeline with a new one unless you're getting paid to oppose. This is why we need TMX ASAP. #### sakes. ####ing emergency and anyone who doesn't see it is a moron.

You know the old joke about how if you're a guy who thinks every single person they meet is an A-hole, that you're actually the A-hole?

BC, Quebec, Minnesota, Ontario, Trudeau, Trump, Notley, Europe, China, OPEC, TIDES, Suzuki, Obama, Saudis, etc.



Albertans are every bit as tiresome as those who we love to lament (especially from BC and Quebec), and perhaps even less self-aware.

For the record, I align more closely with you rambling masses on most issues than with the various 'boogeymen' I listed above. But you people make me question that more and more every day.

[_Q_]

It's unfortunately getting pretty obvious that nobody wants our oil. I guess we can either pack it in or move on to something else.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by _Q_

It's unfortunately getting pretty obvious that nobody wants our oil. I guess we can either pack it in or move on to something else.

People want it....but other people dont want us to be able to sell it.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

To be fair, the manner in which Klein achieved "paid in full" didn't exactly set things up for success. You can save a lot of money by never doing oil changes, or replacing your car tires, painting your house, replacing appliances when they break down, eating nothing but ramen at every single meal, etc. - but it comes back to bite you in the ass when you get whatever disease is associated with eating such a terrible diet and your car breaks down on the way to the airport for your flight to the States for a treatment that you're paying for by selling your house for less than it should be worse due to shoddy maintenance because the treatment isn't offered at home because our healthcare system was gutted.





I'm sure all of you same people were similarly outraged every other time this has been done, which is incidentally before every single election in the history of democracy...

It is certainly not commendable behaviour, but neither is ignoring common sense in your outrage.



Out of curiosity, has Kenney offered any ideas for how he would have prevented this?



You know the old joke about how if you're a guy who thinks every single person they meet is an A-hole, that you're actually the A-hole?

BC, Quebec, Minnesota, Ontario, Trudeau, Trump, Notley, Europe, China, OPEC, TIDES, Suzuki, Obama, Saudis, etc.



Albertans are every bit as tiresome as those who we love to lament (especially from BC and Quebec), and perhaps even less self-aware.

For the record, I align more closely with you rambling masses on most issues than with the various 'boogeymen' I listed above. But you people make me question that more and more every day.

Your position seems to be borne more out of disdain for "Albertans" than anything else. That's the only conclusion I can take from someone saying a group that wants to sell its resource for fair market value is less self aware than two provinces who use a heckuva lot of oil but like to pretend that they don't. I have no other explanation. If you want to align yourself with groups that want to shut down the oil sands and move barrels of oil by rail at a greater cost to the environment and the economy then go right ahead. You'll have to hand in your smartest-guy-in-the-room card when you do though

Notley, to her credit, saved the Province from complete economic collapse by curtailing production but I wonder if maybe she should've let things play out to drive the point home to the head in the sand crew how desperate the situation is. You'd think selling the world cheapest crude by far would have lit the bulb for everyone but clearly not. The facts on the ground are that we are hemmed in and desperately need new space. And projects on hold for 6-10 years is not a steam rolling. You know what makes it really hard to fund the social programs and give government tax breaks to help diversify the economy? When you lose 10s of billions of dollars a year for no reason. Makes things kinda difficult. Let me humbly suggest to you to do some research on the history of these projects and Vivian Krauses work on how these obstructionist bad faith groups are being funded with the explicit goal of eroding value for all of us. If you still wanna be chill and wax poetic with your long rambling posts about the nature of money and FN potable water then have it. But don't expect the rest of us in tune with reality to be as relaxed about fire saling the worlds most valuable commodity when we actually care about funding schools hospitals and feeding our families.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by _Q_

It's unfortunately getting pretty obvious that nobody wants our oil. I guess we can either pack it in or move on to something else.

This is really incorrect. The market is absolutely there, its been stated a billion times here and elsewhere. Being denied a coastline by BC and Quebec =/= oh well there's no market for it.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Your position seems to be borne more out of disdain for "Albertans" than anything else. That's the only conclusion I can take from someone saying a group that wants to sell its resource for fair market value is less self aware than two provinces who use a heckuva lot of oil but like to pretend that they don't. I have no other explanation. If you want to align yourself with groups that want to shut down the oil sands and move barrels of oil by rail at a greater cost to the environment and the economy then go right ahead. You'll have to hand in your smartest-guy-in-the-room card when you do though

Notley, to her credit, saved the Province from complete economic collapse by curtailing production but I wonder if maybe she should've let things play out to drive the point home to the head in the sand crew how desperate the situation is. You'd think selling the world cheapest crude by far would have lit the bulb for everyone but clearly not. The facts on the ground are that we are hemmed in and desperately need new space. And projects on hold for 6-10 years is not a steam rolling. You know what makes it really hard to fund the social programs and give government tax breaks to help diversify the economy? When you lose 10s of billions of dollars a year for no reason. Makes things kinda difficult. Let me humbly suggest to you to do some research on the history of these projects and Vivian Krauses work on how these obstructionist bad faith groups are being funded with the explicit goal of eroding value for all of us. If you still wanna be chill and wax poetic with your long rambling posts about the nature of money and FN potable water then have it. But don't expect the rest of us in tune with reality to be as relaxed about fire saling the worlds most valuable commodity when we actually care about funding schools hospitals and feeding our families.

I have tremendous disdain for both [typical] Albertans and the obstructionists. As a born and bred Albertan, I have to spend a lot more time with fellow Albertans though, so their schtick grates on me a little. You know what was more annoying than watching the Flames lose last night? The two know-it-all oil & gas guys' conversation behind me, that got dumber and louder as they got drunker. One row in front, I [thankfully] couldn't hear as well, but it sounded like the exact same conversation. In real life, I'm very careful to avoid being the 'smartest guy in the room' (though that inherently does not translate well through text), because it is a simply insufferable character trait - a major factor in my disdain for typical Albertans, like my own brother (the disdain I feel for him doesn't interfere with my ability to love and support him like a...brother).

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, though I think a lot of you can't see the forest for the trees. I'll be the first to admit that I'm out of the loop on a lot of the nitty gritty details in O&G (b/c it is insufferable to converse with typical Albertans about it). You wanna know why the pro-pipeline side has lost so miserably in the battle of public opinion? Blame TIDES all you want, but a big reason people are more willing to listen to their truth than your truth, is because they don't deliver their message like condescending pricks (to be clear, not talking about any individual posters - I'm speaking more about real-world conversations, but this behaviour is also ubiquitous on message boards/social media).

I enjoy hearing a bunch of different perspectives on topics on message boards like this - some of them make my eyes roll, some of them just open my eyes. You're more than welcome to ignore my long rambling posts - they're more for my own benefit than anyone else, but I do really appreciate the [occasionally thoughtful] feedback as it helps me consider my position even better.

I'd say I'm pretty damn close to the middle on this issue, though I am absolutely in favour of this pipeline. I am also in favour of holding it, and other projects (especially of this scope) to far more rigid standards than we have in the past. If meeting these standards threatens the viability of the project, then I'd have concerns about the viability of the project to begin with.


Ooops, this turned into another long rambling post, but I haven't really gotten into enough virtue signalling yet, so here we go. Personally, I'm not particularly concerned about the vast amounts of water used for resource extraction (though it's obviously less than ideal), but I really do wish potable water and sanitary living conditions were available to all Canadians. As a human being, it's just a little hard for me to worry very much about this economic oil and gas 'crisis' when I know that not much progress has been made on the crisis in Attawapiskat. You know what I've done, as individual, to help? Absolutely nothing practical or meaningful.

How is poverty in FN communities linked to pipeline development? They're really not. But, when pipeline proponents start spewing ignorant drivel about the way crooked FNs are obstructing their ability to prosper from O&G like they did in the good ole' days, it makes me think and feel a great many things, not least of which is some schadenfreude at your so-called suffering.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can build a pipeline and work on reconciliation at the same time. I'd like to think we could advocate for a pipeline without being condescending pricks, but I have less hope for that every day.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'd say I'm pretty damn close to the middle on this issue, though I am absolutely in favour of this pipeline. I am also in favour of holding it, and other projects (especially of this scope) to far more rigid standards than we have in the past. If meeting these standards threatens the viability of the project, then I'd have concerns about the viability of the project to begin with.

What particular standard would you like to see more rigid?

Timelines and regulatory uncertainty is what is killing these projects not rigid standards. If you have pipeline companies a list of things to do they would take that list implement and build their pipeline knowing it’s cheaper and safer than rail. It really almost doesn’t matter how ridiculous that list is given the cost difference between rail and pipeline. All the increased requirements end up doing is coming out of Royalties paid to the province (much more complicated but reasonably close).

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I have tremendous disdain for both [typical] Albertans and the obstructionists. As a born and bred Albertan, I have to spend a lot more time with fellow Albertans though, so their schtick grates on me a little. You know what was more annoying than watching the Flames lose last night? The two know-it-all oil & gas guys' conversation behind me, that got dumber and louder as they got drunker. One row in front, I [thankfully] couldn't hear as well, but it sounded like the exact same conversation. In real life, I'm very careful to avoid being the 'smartest guy in the room' (though that inherently does not translate well through text), because it is a simply insufferable character trait - a major factor in my disdain for typical Albertans, like my own brother (the disdain I feel for him doesn't interfere with my ability to love and support him like a...brother).

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, though I think a lot of you can't see the forest for the trees. I'll be the first to admit that I'm out of the loop on a lot of the nitty gritty details in O&G (b/c it is insufferable to converse with typical Albertans about it). You wanna know why the pro-pipeline side has lost so miserably in the battle of public opinion? Blame TIDES all you want, but a big reason people are more willing to listen to their truth than your truth, is because they don't deliver their message like condescending pricks (to be clear, not talking about any individual posters - I'm speaking more about real-world conversations, but this behaviour is also ubiquitous on message boards/social media).

I enjoy hearing a bunch of different perspectives on topics on message boards like this - some of them make my eyes roll, some of them just open my eyes. You're more than welcome to ignore my long rambling posts - they're more for my own benefit than anyone else, but I do really appreciate the [occasionally thoughtful] feedback as it helps me consider my position even better.

I'd say I'm pretty damn close to the middle on this issue, though I am absolutely in favour of this pipeline. I am also in favour of holding it, and other projects (especially of this scope) to far more rigid standards than we have in the past. If meeting these standards threatens the viability of the project, then I'd have concerns about the viability of the project to begin with.


Ooops, this turned into another long rambling post, but I haven't really gotten into enough virtue signalling yet, so here we go. Personally, I'm not particularly concerned about the vast amounts of water used for resource extraction (though it's obviously less than ideal), but I really do wish potable water and sanitary living conditions were available to all Canadians. As a human being, it's just a little hard for me to worry very much about this economic oil and gas 'crisis' when I know that not much progress has been made on the crisis in Attawapiskat. You know what I've done, as individual, to help? Absolutely nothing practical or meaningful.

How is poverty in FN communities linked to pipeline development? They're really not. But, when pipeline proponents start spewing ignorant drivel about the way crooked FNs are obstructing their ability to prosper from O&G like they did in the good ole' days, it makes me think and feel a great many things, not least of which is some schadenfreude at your so-called suffering.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can build a pipeline and work on reconciliation at the same time. I'd like to think we could advocate for a pipeline without being condescending pricks, but I have less hope for that every day.

Look if people are being racist that's one thing. But it's also a mistake to just assume that all FN opposition is altruistic. For example, the case that quashed TMX in August was launched by an FN band that's not even on the route. They argued they weren't consulted properly and the court agreed, but when the ruling was announced did they celebrate their right to be consulted more? The thing they were suing over? No, they celebrated what they knew was a gut punch to the project. That's bad faith and gaming the system, pure and simple. This was after years of extensive consultations with private corporations trying to work within the system and still getting denied on false pretenses, not simply a matter of forgetting to dot i's and cross t's as you suggested previously. You can't say you want more strict regulations but then not have any examples to cite, these projects have been in the works for almost a decade at this point, longer than anywhere else in the world, I think it's safe to say they're regulated enough.

Who is this helping? Not the majority of pro-development FN's that recognize these projects as a boost to their communities. Not Attawapiskat, where the only possible connection one could make with a beleaguered northern community completely reliant on Government funding and pipeline development is that some of the additional income generated from these projects could be further funneled to said community. Not the government coffers of Alberta that pay for hospitals, schools, and roads, things we all use and need. Not the service company families living in beaten down towns like Drayton Valley and Lloydminster. Not 20 somethings in the workforce like me who were in junior high during the last boom so how much people made or didn't make is really irrelevant to the conditions facing us now. And yeah, not the older richer guys from the "good ole days" that seem to be the center of your ire. So if you're willing to feel schadenfreude towards all those groups when you really just have a problem with the meme of Successful Alberta Baby Boomer Oil Man aka condescending pricks that's your choice.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1102617330117476352

[you&me]

The cynic in me is curious - what does the pension for an MLA look like after one term?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by you&me

The cynic in me is curious - what does the pension for an MLA look like after one term?

I don't think its as much of a pension, there is a pension investment, the question is around the transitional one time pay that they receive if I recall correctly.


The pension is basically a 1 to 1 matching on RRSP's.


Transition allowance is 3 months salary for every year. So a departing MLA after one term of 4 years is getting a one year of salary which at minimum would be I think $108,000

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by you&me

The cynic in me is curious - what does the pension for an MLA look like after one term?

The government pension kicks in after 6 years or two terms I believe...

However lots of these NDP MLA's will likely be landing into management positions with various union groups across the provice.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

The government pension kicks in after 6 years or two terms I believe...

However lots of these NDP MLA's will likely be landing into management positions with various union groups across the provice.

Source?