2018 Blue Jays Season Thread

[jayswin]

I don't think they misjudged anything, personally. They were very likely given clear directives on when a rebuild could begin and it was always going to be when they hit the wall and attendance dropped, not before.

They aren't perfect but I can almost guarantee you they were smart enough to offload Donaldson for maximum return last off season if not before.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I am OK with a lot of the moves Shapiro and Atkins have made, and I still think they are pointing this team in the right direction.

I just think they misjudged this teams competitive window and lost out on recouping some valuable assets by holding on too long. However upon reflection this is likely true with a lot of teams in pro sports, it's very hard to accurately assess a players peak value and correlate that with a teams competitive window and then knowing when to deal said player to get max value. Perhaps they felt it would have been a PR nightmare to deal Donaldson after losing Encarnacion a year prior.

They certainly could not have foreseen Osuna getting into legal trouble and Donaldson's calfs becoming such a nagging issue. I do have a lot of suspicion about how this organization treats its injured players.

Yes the treatment of injured players is for sure valid, I would share that as those stories go back a long time.

The game lately seems to have trended away from teams giving away the farm unless they get control, so I really question how much Donaldson would have received had he been traded last offseason and i'm just not sure it would have matched the return some float out there. I think the peak time to trade Donaldson would have been coming off the back to back ALCS appearances where the Jays still had 2 years of control on him. I can understand and appreciate the argument that a front office should know a rebuild is coming and therefore should have dealt him coming off those back to back appearances but at the same time that's really simplify what is an incredibly complex decision.

Obviously if I'm wrong and the Jays turned down offers that included multiple top prospects for Donaldson in the off-season I would agree with the criticism of the front office. I just find it hard to believe given how they've operated teams in the past and the Jays since they got here. I personally view Shapiro and Atkins and very smart individuals and I think there is a lot of talent in the Jays front office that is smarter than that.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by cross16

Yes the treatment of injured players is for sure valid, I would share that as those stories go back a long time.

The game lately seems to have trended away from teams giving away the farm unless they get control, so I really question how much Donaldson would have received had he been traded last offseason and i'm just not sure it would have matched the return some float out there. I think the peak time to trade Donaldson would have been coming off the back to back ALCS appearances where the Jays still had 2 years of control on him. I can understand and appreciate the argument that a front office should know a rebuild is coming and therefore should have dealt him coming off those back to back appearances but at the same time that's really simplify what is an incredibly complex decision.

Obviously if I'm wrong and the Jays turned down offers that included multiple top prospects for Donaldson in the off-season I would agree with the criticism of the front office. I just find it hard to believe given how they've operated teams in the past and the Jays since they got here. I personally view Shapiro and Atkins and very smart individuals and I think there is a lot of talent in the Jays front office that is smarter than that.

Yes you're probably right. I think teams have been much more reticent to deal top prospects for players with no control since Chapman got the Yankees Gleyber Torres.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

JD hit a HR during his first AB today. Now, don’t get hurt.

[browna]

Originally Posted by fleury

Yeah, seen that awhile back. I don't blame them as she's a catch, imo, but I don't understand how, even if true, creates complications. Pushing JD was bad as we all seen his lack of strength at seasons start. Maximizing trade value is Sports 101, and so far A&S haven't showed quite the baseball acumen they make themselves out to be. Hopefully it's not because of ownership politics.

A catch? Meh. She's a mannequin.
Donaldson hits a homer and also says he's got a lot to say about the front office in the way they handled this but won't yet.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I don't think they misjudged anything, personally. They were very likely given clear directives on when a rebuild could begin and it was always going to be when they hit the wall and attendance dropped, not before.

They aren't perfect but I can almost guarantee you they were smart enough to offload Donaldson for maximum return last off season if not before.

Exactly. Hard to manage the team with Rogers calling the shots.

[bluejays]

Personally in the work life I'm always weary of the smooth talker. While I don't think Atkins or Shapiro are bad at their jobs (I think they'll turn to be better than average), there hasn't been anything that has stood out to me that they're geniuses. From my personal experience with smooth talkers, I've found many of these guys who make it upward in organizations are a-types who don't take no as an answer, which leads to a lot of problems with surrounding themselves with yes-men. The good part of their approach is that they appear to have a committee approach to decision making after not wanting to give AA the reins, but if they're surrounding themselves with the just-get-it-done types, then it's just a committee by name. I don't know where I'm going with this but I've really been turned off with them simply not moving Donaldson earlier.

They moved on from Edwin, which most fans were fine with; then they moved on from arguably the biggest star, Jose, which after he wreaked himself, the fans were fine with moving on with, but the one guy who they couldn't have let go on a mediocre return was Donaldson. He was their money ticket to fast tracking this rebuild and they blew it. Certainly nobody can predict injuries, but you can't take that chance when you have that asset and it seems like the fans "knew" this wasn't going to be their year. It's entirely possible that ownership stepped in and gave instructions, but then again that's Shapiro's job to sell ownership on a vision and what the possibilities are. If he didn't accomplish that, either Rogers is meddling in baseball ops, or management drank their own Kool-aid. Knowing the way large corps work, I think it'd be a combination of the two where Rogers said they wanted a push for making the playoffs (though it wouldn't necessarily mean that they can't deal Donaldson), but that management probably said to themselves that they can try for the best of both worlds if the playoffs doesn't pan out and they can deal him. They probably didn't put much weight on the possibility of a year long injury with a guy who didn't have a terrible history, and when he got tightness at the start of the season, their plan went to crap and they put pressure on him to perform which made it worse. That's my theory of what happened, but it certainly to me sounds plausible.

[bluejays]

Decent article written by Griffin today: https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluej...blue-jays.html

[TheAlpineOracle]

Interesting to see why Donaldson will eventually say.

[Jason14h]

Why would Donaldson slow play an injury and cost himself 10s if not hundreds of millions ?

So he can remain on the dumpster fire of a team the Jays have. Re-become ??

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why would Donaldson slow play an injury and cost himself 10s if not hundreds of millions ?

So he can remain on the dumpster fire of a team the Jays have. Re-become ??

Sitting out for Donaldson at this point wouldn't cost him additional dough. His value has already been established for this upcoming season I'd think. He's either getting $18M from a qualifying offer, or some team will take him on for at least $15M IMO. If he's being spiteful it's probably because the Jays rushed him to begin with, and it's his way of giving them the finger.

[cross16]

Injury or not, i'm not surprised if Donaldson is upset. He's made it clear he wants to be a Jay and I think the front office has made it clear, although maybe not as directly as he'd hope, that they want to move on. I think the Jays are right in wanting to move on but the situation sucks for a player of Donaldson calibre so natrually he's pissed.

That's the part I thought Griffen did a good job of in that article. This is not the way this relationship should end so emotions are going to get involved.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Sounds like JD might be going to St. Louis.

Granderson hopefully will be moved as well. Load up on assets.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Bob Nightengale@BNightengale
Josh Donaldson, as expected with his $23 million salary, officially clears waivers as
@JonHeyman
first reported. He will be traded by midnight.
#Jays

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by cross16

Is this based on anything concrete?

Because I remember the Cards GM specifically saying he was not going to give up his top prospects for a player with 1 year left of control.

I get people don't like Shapiro and Atkins but so far they've done pretty well on trades so harping on them so much for a situation that appears to me to be bad luck more than anything else is pretty unfair, but I get it's just the state of most Blue Jay fans right now.

There were rumors at the time. Something like Gyorko+Flaherty.

Nothing is concrete since it didn't happen.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Just a little Bo Bichette news:

As the Fisher Cats wind down their AA season Bichette has been on an absolute tear. Hitting .405 in his last 10 games.

His BA hit a low of .237 in May and it has steadily climbed to .289 now.

[bluejays]

Two solid cornerstones to build around, which is a great start. Given it's baseball, gotta load up on more high end talent to compete then fill in the missing pieces later as even generational talents can't single handedly win games night after night like in most other sports.

[bluejays]

TSN has a pretty interesting of Steve Phillips, saying that if he were opposing GMs, the deal he'd be offering the Jays would be one where they'd firstly have to take on his remaining salary, as well as the prospect returning would be dependent on Donaldson's playoff performance.

If I'm the Jays, I don't hesitate to bite the bullet and eat what is left of his small salary, but in return, those PTBN would have to be substantial on two things - Josh's performance OR the teams progress into the playoffs. JD should not be dealt for a bag of balls. It's about quality and upside, not quantity and average rubbish. If that's the case where the Jays are being lowballed, hold onto him, offer him his $18M for 1 year and let him redeem himself to sell by the deadline next season. JD wouldn't screw himself over in spite for another year by not playing to his full potential. This is a deal that Shapiro and Atkins have to be judged on because so much of the future depends on it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Sanchez stunk it up again tonight against a AAA caliber team. Yikes

FO is going to have it's work cut out building a rotation for next season.

Sanchez
Stroman
Borucki
Pannone
Gaviglio
Reid-Foley

None of these guys have inspired much confidence going forward so far, IMO.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Sounds like Donaldson has been traded.