General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[woob]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The funny thing is, I would bet that if Phoenix never had a team, they would be near the top of most people's list of cities that should get a shot.

On paper, they look like a feasible market demographically. I can't help but think that bad business and hockey decisions had such a negative impact that a downward spiral started with much of the potential fanbase. It's hard to draw new fans when every week, they are talking about the team leaving. It makes it hard to even keep old fans.

I kind of wish they would have left a few years ago because Phoenix would be that much closer to being on the radar again. I don't see them that different than Denver or the Bay Area, where if enough time goes by to forget the failed experiment, they can start with a clean slate. Geographically, it is also convenient to have a team in that area. I wouldn't be surprised if that is one of the reasons the NHL is holding on tight there.

I agree. I still think Phoenix is a great market for hockey, they just happen to have one of the WORST locations for their arena. You move that arena down to a more central area in Phoenix where you can do a better job of drawing on 4+million people, this thread would likely not exist.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by woob

I agree. I still think Phoenix is a great market for hockey, they just happen to have one of the WORST locations for their arena. You move that arena down to a more central area in Phoenix where you can do a better job of drawing on 4+million people, this thread would likely not exist.

The thing is it isn't just one problem with Phoenix. Here's a list of what they need or as some say the excuses why it doesn't work.
1. decent arena in a good location
2. decent team
3. decent owner
4. hockey history
5. decent economy
6. and what it all boils down to, decent attendance

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by valo403

I thought it was being used as a means to kick sand or take pleasure in watching a market struggle, hence the question. Turns out I misinterpreted.

I mainly use it to kick sand at the team, and by association kick sand also at the NHL's whole focus towards expanding/relocating to sunbelt locations.

By the same vein, I kind of do take some pleasure in watching this market struggle. I was a Jets fan as a kid, and lived in Winnipeg when the team moved, and I was... not a big supporter of the relocation.

While it's the owners' money, and they can do as they please with their businesses, I am allowed to be spiteful regarding those moves which I don't like. It may be irrational but anyone who isn't illogically emotional about their teams isnt a hockey fan.

[landshark]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Announcement of completed deal expected tomorrow

Now, where have I heard this before?

oh yeah...

from post #1:

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

7 year commitment to Phoenix, money will not be an issue.

from @rocandmanuch

The interested buy is a former West coast NHL exec and has multiple investors.

:-)

just ribbin ya... maybe, just maybe this is it - really...

but if it's NOT, I fully expect to see bouw leading a torch wielding mob to Jamison's castle...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The thing is it isn't just one problem with Phoenix. Here's a list of what they need or as some say the excuses why it doesn't work.
1. decent arena in a good location
2. decent team
3. decent owner
4. hockey history
5. decent economy
6. and what it all boils down to, decent attendance

Have they ever had more than one of those at a time? I can't think of a period where they did.

1. Seems like they've never had it. US Airways wasn't suited for hockey but the location was better. The new arena seems good but the location sucks.
2. They've had a few good years and a few lousy years.
3. Initially ownership seemed to be pretty good, but Moyes drove the franchise into the ground. It's been a gongshow since then.
4. This will take time to develop, I don't think anyone expects it to exist now or in the near future.
5. Pretty much applies to any market.
6. Isn't this just the result of having all of, or at least some of, the above in place?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I mainly use it to kick sand at the team, and by association kick sand also at the NHL's whole focus towards expanding/relocating to sunbelt locations.

By the same vein, I kind of do take some pleasure in watching this market struggle. I was a Jets fan as a kid, and lived in Winnipeg when the team moved, and I was... not a big supporter of the relocation.

While it's the owners' money, and they can do as they please with their businesses, I am allowed to be spiteful regarding those moves which I don't like. It may be irrational but anyone who isn't illogically emotional about their teams isnt a hockey fan.

I guess I'm not a hockey fan then, unless my complete and utter hatred for Vancouver and Edmonton counts, but those both seem to be completely logical.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Have they ever had more than one of those at a time? I can't think of a period where they did.

1. Seems like they've never had it. US Airways wasn't suited for hockey but the location was better. The new arena seems good but the location sucks.
2. They've had a few good years and a few lousy years.
3. Initially ownership seemed to be pretty good, but Moyes drove the franchise into the ground. It's been a gongshow since then.
4. This will take time to develop, I don't think anyone expects it to exist now or in the near future.
5. Pretty much applies to any market.
6. Isn't this just the result of having all of, or at least some of, the above in place?

So, what's your solution? I don't see the team's finances improving even with a new owner.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So, what's your solution? I don't see the team's finances improving even with a new owner.

I don't have one, Jamison might but I have my doubts.

[woob]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So, what's your solution? I don't see the team's finances improving even with a new owner.

Naked ice girls.

[Joborule]

I'm willing to wager that Coyotes don't have a deal that secures them in Phoenix for the future tomorrow. As much as I would like for them to stay, they're going to be at either Seattle or Quebec City 2-3 years from now.

[troutman]

Greg Jamison group ready to close Phoenix Coyotes sale, keep team in Glendale


http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...-close-on.html

Two sources familiar with the deal told me today that Jamison’s group will close the deal tomorrow, while another official said it will happen Thursday.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...d-last-in.html

Across town, the Phoenix Suns are seeing an attendance slide during their subpar, rebuilding campaign. The Suns are 25th among the 30 National Basketball Association teams. The Suns are averaging 14,800 fans per game this season, according to ESPN.

[this may indicate being downtown is not the most important factor]

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by troutman

Greg Jamison group ready to close Phoenix Coyotes sale, keep team in Glendale


http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...-close-on.html

Two sources familiar with the deal told me today that Jamison’s group will close the deal tomorrow, while another official said it will happen Thursday.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...d-last-in.html

Across town, the Phoenix Suns are seeing an attendance slide during their subpar, rebuilding campaign. The Suns are 25th among the 30 National Basketball Association teams. The Suns are averaging 14,800 fans per game this season, according to ESPN.

[this may indicate being downtown is not the most important factor]

Until you have a stable ownership situation - and one that isn't pillaging the franchise behind closed doors - I don't think recent attendance is particularly relevant as a guage of what might happen in the future.

It must be extraordinarily difficult to secure sponsorships or convince fans to commit emotionally to you if every second headline is about how you're going to take off in the dark of night.

Put the baloney behind them in a city of five million and commit to 25 years . . . . . and you'll probably start to get some traction on getting 18,000 into the building every night. As with any market like that . . . . you have to win or attendance will be more variable than it might be in a northern city.

I agree, however, having been there to a game, that Glendale is definitely not the most ideal spot to navigate to. Now that I know the freeways better, I'll try again next November when I'm down there and see how that works out. But they look like they're positioned on the opposite side of the city from the money and that's probably not a good idea.

Cowperson

[Sec218]

Greg Jamison group ready to close Phoenix Coyotes sale, keep team in Glendale

Good, the mods can finally close this thread!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Put the baloney behind them in a city of five million and commit to 25 years . . . . . and you'll probably start to get some traction on getting 18,000 into the building every night. As with any market like that . . . . you have to win or attendance will be more variable than it might be in a northern city.

Cowperson

This is an interesting problem in a 30 team NHL (soon to be 32?). All things being equal, you can only expect a trip to the finals every 15 years, or a playoff spot about 50% of the time. With this many teams, there will be long dry spells. How competitive does a team have to be in the Sunbelt, to continue to draw well?

This could be one reason why the NHL wants to expand the playoffs.

[troutman]

Lots of rumours tonight:

1) Bettman is flying to Phoenix tomorrow

2) leBrun says Jamison can't close on time, but nhl willing to extend

3) BOG voted today on a lower purchase price

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by troutman

Lots of rumours tonight:

1) Bettman is flying to Phoenix tomorrow

2) leBrun says Jamison can't close on time, but nhl willing to extend

3) BOG voted today on a lower purchase price

but is the CoG willing to extend, not from what I've heard.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by troutman

Lots of rumours tonight:

1) Bettman is flying to Phoenix tomorrow

2) leBrun says Jamison can't close on time, but nhl willing to extend

3) BOG voted today on a lower purchase price

I cannot fathom how this team actually stays in Phoenix after this mess. It defies logic and understanding.

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Until you have a stable ownership situation - and one that isn't pillaging the franchise behind closed doors - I don't think recent attendance is particularly relevant as a guage of what might happen in the future.

It must be extraordinarily difficult to secure sponsorships or convince fans to commit emotionally to you if every second headline is about how you're going to take off in the dark of night.

Put the baloney behind them in a city of five million and commit to 25 years . . . . . and you'll probably start to get some traction on getting 18,000 into the building every night. As with any market like that . . . . you have to win or attendance will be more variable than it might be in a northern city.

I agree, however, having been there to a game, that Glendale is definitely not the most ideal spot to navigate to. Now that I know the freeways better, I'll try again next November when I'm down there and see how that works out. But they look like they're positioned on the opposite side of the city from the money and that's probably not a good idea.

Cowperson

I guess it depends on your perspective. I spend the winters in Goodyear, AZ, and it is only a 15 minute drive to Glendale, so I'm quite happy with the location.

[The Original FFIV]

There are some cities that seem to support college sports more than professional sports. This might be the case with Phoenix. Time to put the desert dogs to sleep.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by troutman

Lots of rumours tonight:

1) Bettman is flying to Phoenix tomorrow

2) leBrun says Jamison can't close on time, but nhl willing to extend

3) BOG voted today on a lower purchase price

Did Lebrun actually say this? I find it curious that he had nothing on his Twitter.