The ongoing X and Elon Musk Transgressions Thread

[Coach]

I think Musk used to have altruism in his head when he was trying to get things like Tesla batteries and stuff like that going.

But I do think that the type of money these people bring in just begins to dissociate them from real life, and they start to hang around each other and the a**holerly just starts to compound on itself as they all realize that they are essentially world kings that can do whatever they want and start to see things like manipulating stock markets and seeing if they can make whole companies sink or swim just by the virtue of who they are the same way we look at a game of Monopoly. There's literally no pathway in their brain telling them that they are affecting real people en-masse. That pathway was severed by literally everyone they come into contact with worshiping at their feet.

The best thing about this whole Twitter thing is to see one of them spiral in real time. The worst thing is that 100's of billions of dollars that could have been used for something good is just gone.

[Mickey76]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not grievance, they’re critical viewpoints (which you’ve misrepresented to make your own argument feel stronger to you). This is just another example of trying to reframe normal criticism as an “attack” or rude/angry etc. You haven’t actually presented a counterpoint.

They’re not critical viewpoints, they are beyond ridiculous. The Big 3 could not build a decent electric car and Musk built the best by a mile as evidenced by sales. You give them money they give you a car that is actually electric just as it is advertised. Holmes was a pure dangerous medical fraud. You can compare Theraos to Nikola or maybe even Volkswagen if you’re looking for similarities.

[Looch City]

Best by a mile maybe a decade ago. Certainly not anymore. Any they haven't even improved in quality/QC for a "luxury EV".

[opendoor]

Yet despite Tesla's significant faults, if you want one of their cars you can buy it online and receive it almost immediately. If you want say, an Ioniq 5, you have to talk to a dealer and deal with all the annoyances of that, then they'll put your name on a waitlist so you can maybe buy one in 18-24 months.

The fact that a car company with such poor QC and lackluster design can dominate the market is an indictment on the rest of the automakers. And some of them (Toyota most notably) still aren't even taking EVs all that seriously, so I'm not sure the gap is going to close all that soon.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mickey76

They’re not critical viewpoints, they are beyond ridiculous. The Big 3 could not build a decent electric car and Musk built the best by a mile as evidenced by sales. You give them money they give you a car that is actually electric just as it is advertised. Holmes was a pure dangerous medical fraud. You can compare Theraos to Nikola or maybe even Volkswagen if you’re looking for similarities.

Do you think the highest selling car is always the best? Honest question, because i don’t know many who believe that to be the metric.

Regardless, the comparison wasn’t to show Tesla as fraudulent or suggest fraud so I’m not sure what your point is. The entire point was the razor thin difference between a scam (Holmes/Theranos) and a success story (Musk/Tesla). So in what sense have you pointed out any ridiculousness?

[ZedMan]

There is no "razor thin margin" between iterating on existing technologies and taking advantage of first mover advantage (Tesla) and straight up selling pixie dust (Theranos).

[Mickey76]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Do you think the highest selling car is always the best? Honest question, because i don’t know many who believe that to be the metric.

Regardless, the comparison wasn’t to show Tesla as fraudulent or suggest fraud so I’m not sure what your point is. The entire point was the razor thin difference between a scam (Holmes/Theranos) and a success story (Musk/Tesla). So in what sense have you pointed out any ridiculousness?

How is it razor thin? It is not razor thin. One was an intentional deliberate fraud. The other is a very successful product. That’s like saying withdrawing money from your bank account and committing an armed bank robbery are similar because both involve you walking out of the bank with money. Matter of fact it is a razor thin difference. If they find an internal combustion engine hidden in the floor boards with elves who put gas in every night you have a point. Otherwise they are polar opposites.

[Kasi]

I don’t think anyone will argue that Teslas aren’t successful EVs. But on one part of their business I think there is a point. That being Teslas self driving software. That to me pushes the line between scam and not. Especially with reports how it turns off before crashes so it doesn’t report as self driving error.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mickey76

How is it razor thin? It is not razor thin. One was an intentional deliberate fraud. The other is a very successful product. That’s like saying withdrawing money from your bank account and committing an armed bank robbery are similar because both involve you walking out of the bank with money. Matter of fact it is a razor thin difference. If they find an internal combustion engine hidden in the floor boards with elves who put gas in every night you have a point. Otherwise they are polar opposites.

Where they are today isn’t that close of a difference, yes, but that’s not what I’m saying. The people, the egos, the understanding of the technologies they’re dealing with, the investor traction, buy-in from other sources.

Look at them with a bit more nuance that “one fraud, one not fraud” and you can see how small the difference is between a “genius” and a fraudster.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Yet despite Tesla's significant faults, if you want one of their cars you can buy it online and receive it almost immediately. If you want say, an Ioniq 5, you have to talk to a dealer and deal with all the annoyances of that, then they'll put your name on a waitlist so you can maybe buy one in 18-24 months.

The fact that a car company with such poor QC and lackluster design can dominate the market is an indictment on the rest of the automakers. And some of them (Toyota most notably) still aren't even taking EVs all that seriously, so I'm not sure the gap is going to close all that soon.

The only reason the gap isn't closed already is supply issues. Yes, if you want an Ionic (or whatever), you're going to wait, but that isn't Hyundai's fault, that is simply the nature of the global marketplace at the moment.

In a matter of months, every manufacturer (except Toyota) will have EVs on their lots. And they are all new and exciting designs - as opposed to Teslas, which haven't changed (or improved) in how many years?

[afc wimbledon]

This is the best market Tesla will ever have, as the big auto makers bring their own EV's in numbers to the market Tesla's share will obviously drop, I suspect tieing himself the the right wing of US politics is a monumental PR screw up by Musk, the redneck yee ha's will never buy Teslas, wont likely buy electric, he is annoying the well off liberal leftys his car sales rely on in order to curry favour with morons who cant afford and dont want his cars

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

This is the best market Tesla will ever have, as the big auto makers bring their own EV's in numbers to the market Tesla's share will obviously drop, I suspect tieing himself the the right wing of US politics is a monumental PR screw up by Musk, the redneck yee ha's will never buy Teslas, wont likely buy electric, he is annoying the well off liberal leftys his car sales rely on in order to curry favour with morons who cant afford and dont want his cars

“Right wing red neck”

Lol can’t afford.

Keep telling yourself that Starbucks.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Nm

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Yoho

“Right wing red neck”

Lol can’t afford.

Keep telling yourself that Starbucks.

Starbucks!!! ye gods how backward is the trailer park you live in??? I haven't set foot in a Starbucks in a decade, I'd sooner order a coffee in a Mc Dicks, move out of the sticks sonny jim

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Starbucks!!! ye gods how backward is the trailer park you live in??? I haven't set foot in a Starbucks in a decade, I'd sooner order a coffee in a Mc Dicks, move out of the sticks sonny jim

100% - BUT - Have to admit, the pumpkin spice lattes are highly addictive...good thing they are seasonal.

[fulham]

One thing Tesla deserves a lot of credit for; is that they did make most of their patents open source. They saved a lot of companies billions in R&D.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Starbucks!!! ye gods how backward is the trailer park you live in??? I haven't set foot in a Starbucks in a decade, I'd sooner order a coffee in a Mc Dicks, move out of the sticks sonny jim

Yeah, dummy.. we go to local coffee shops.

[timun]

Originally Posted by fulham

One thing Tesla deserves a lot of credit for; is that they did make most of their patents open source. They saved a lot of companies billions in R&D.

Lol, which companies?

"All our patents are belong to you" was a marketing gimmick, nothing more. The conditions on using Tesla's patents are absurd, in practice if a company used one of Tesla's patents that company would have to let Tesla use any of their own patents, and couldn't assert IP rights on their own patents against a third party.

[jayswin]

Oh hell yeah, it was completely calculated marketing bull****.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by timun

Lol, which companies?

"All our patents are belong to you" was a marketing gimmick, nothing more. The conditions on using Tesla's patents are absurd, in practice if a company used one of Tesla's patents that company would have to let Tesla use any of their own patents, and couldn't assert IP rights on their own patents against a third party.

I don’t think that is an absurd requirement to access open source patents. You exist in the open source world or you don’t. I also agree no company would ever take them up on it.