2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If they can't get Hall, and they can't acquire a decent top 6 center, then they really need to think about doing a major retool before it's too late.

I think most teams reach a point in thier rebuild where they have to retool. LA did it, St.Louis did it, Pittsburgh did it-all in order to compete for a cup. I think it may be our turn.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Here's what I know and most of us know. Treliving is pretty adept at asset management. Forest through the trees type stuff.

Yeah one could argue the Brouwers or Neal's of it all but those were positional needs being filled. Still can't fault him for Neal, thats all on Neal for immediately failing at life.

But in the guts of it and thinking term and dollars and contract stuff, hes really good at managing that. No one really considered the asset management angle of the Hamilton trade when it went down. But when it came to light all the factors, Tree hit the nail on the head.

What I am saying is, when we are wading into big trade waters , I dont really want anyone else at the helm but Tree.

Tre was voted #9 in THN's GM rankings a few years back, and I would argue that some of his early moves (namely the Brouwer signing)were Burke's idea. I think Tre is too thoughtful and analytical to sign a guy like that. He's one of those big, "truculent" meatheads with bad advanced stats that Burkie likes.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Here's what I know and most of us know. Treliving is pretty adept at asset management. Forest through the trees type stuff.

Yeah one could argue the Brouwers or Neal's of it all but those were positional needs being filled. Still can't fault him for Neal, thats all on Neal for immediately failing at life.

But in the guts of it and thinking term and dollars and contract stuff, hes really good at managing that. No one really considered the asset management angle of the Hamilton trade when it went down. But when it came to light all the factors, Tree hit the nail on the head.

What I am saying is, when we are wading into big trade waters , I dont really want anyone else at the helm but Tree.

I loved that trade FYI when it happened. Was a huge fan of Lindholm learned lots because it was him or Monahan we were drafting.

Neal I was also over the moon for, thought that offseason we added our elite RW sniper and our second line center. If it worked out how I (and Tre) saw it we were set for 3 years being elite.

I don't discredit Tre for trying. I applaud him and I believe now he is very weary because you cant make that mistake 3 times.

I agree, but I think he's trigger shy because of his mistakes. He knows his next one turns his image back into an amazing GM or an awful one.

I want him to find the Lindholms again, the Schenn. Not the over pay for Hall or Stone.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I loved that trade FYI when it happened. Was a huge fan of Lindholm learned lots because it was him or Monahan we were drafting.

Neal I was also over the moon for, thought that offseason we added our elite RW sniper and our second line center. If it worked out how I (and Tre) saw it we were set for 3 years being elite.

I don't discredit Tre for trying. I applaud him and I believe now he is very weary because you cant make that mistake 3 times.

I agree, but I think he's trigger shy because of his mistakes. He knows his next one turns his image back into an amazing GM or an awful one.

I want him to find the Lindholms again, the Schenn. Not the over pay for Hall or Stone.

I think the Hall and Stone type things have always been a part of his vision. Hence why he's been in on them. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He's always swinging for the fences. Bishop, Stone, Hall, Hamilton, Hamonic (was easily a top3 most sought after target), Kadri, Zucker and im sure the list is longer too.

He knows what he needed for this core, couldn't get the other team to bite. But I think hes going to get a haul if Gaudreau is the bait.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I think the Hall and Stone type things have always been a part of his vision. Hence why he's been in on them. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He's always swinging for the fences. Bishop, Stone, Hall, Hamilton, Hamonic (was easily a top3 most sought after target), Kadri, Zucker and im sure the list is longer too.

He knows what he needed for this core, couldn't get the other team to bite. But I think hes going to get a haul if Gaudreau is the bait.

And to be fair he lost a couple to geography

[Sandman]

It seems like every time a big name comes up, Flames are one of the top rumored destinations, and that's because of Tre. It's really a shame that trade for Kadri didn't go down, as Connor Brown was included-he would look good in our lineup as well as Kadri.

[dammage79]

Forgot Fleury too. Just can't recall if that was before or after he went all put for Bishop.

[1qqaaz]

Results are what matter.

I don't give Treliving any credit for deals that didn't happen, regardless of whether those deals would have been good or bad. There's at least half a dozen of them now.

When Feaster was GM, he almost acquired a top 10 pick in exchange for a Ribero buyout (good), yet he almost lost a top 10 pick to an RFA offer sheet (bad). I don't give him credit for either of these.

Even Paul Byron had a ton of breakaways while he was on the Flames. I don't give him credit for these chances - he didn't score. Same goes for Sam Bennett in the recent exhibition game against Edmonton.

No individuals in the Flames organization should rely on excuses.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Results are what matter.

I don't give Treliving any credit for deals that didn't happen, regardless of whether those deals would have been good or bad. There's at least half a dozen of them now.

When Feaster was GM, he almost acquired a top 10 pick in exchange for a Ribero buyout (good), yet he almost lost a top 10 pick to an RFA offer sheet (bad). I don't give him credit for either of these.

Even Paul Byron had a ton of breakaways while he was on the Flames. I don't give him credit for these chances - he didn't score. Same goes for Sam Bennett in the recent exhibition game against Edmonton.

No individuals in the Flames organization should rely on excuses.

Yeah giving up breakaways doesn’t lead to defensive adjustments...

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Results are what matter.

I don't give Treliving any credit for deals that didn't happen, regardless of whether those deals would have been good or bad. There's at least half a dozen of them now.

When Feaster was GM, he almost acquired a top 10 pick in exchange for a Ribero buyout (good), yet he almost lost a top 10 pick to an RFA offer sheet (bad). I don't give him credit for either of these.

Even Paul Byron had a ton of breakaways while he was on the Flames. I don't give him credit for these chances - he didn't score. Same goes for Sam Bennett in the recent exhibition game against Edmonton.

No individuals in the Flames organization should rely on excuses.

It’s not about excuses. In reality, people get “credit” or discredited for everything they do, regardless of whether it works. Byron gets credit for the breakaways, he just gets less credit than if they’d resulted in goals. Bennett gets credit for his numerous chances, he’d just get a lot more credit if he could actually bury them. Treliving gets credit for coming close to acquiring Kadri, Bishop, etc, he’d just get a lot more credit if he’d landed them.

On the other side, players get discredited for bad passes, giving up breakaways, etc even if they don’t result in goals against. That happens all the time, it’s life.

You get (or lose) varying levels of credit for everything you do. It’s how people form judgements that aren’t simplistic and devoid of context. Same goes with NHL players and GMs.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sandman

It seems like every time a big name comes up, Flames are one of the top rumored destinations, and that's because of Tre. It's really a shame that trade for Kadri didn't go down, as Connor Brown was included-he would look good in our lineup as well as Kadri.

According to the rumour Brown was going to a third team involved

[Monahammer]

Yeah. Hate to rehash but the Kadri trade would have really made us something IMO:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindy
Tkachuk-Kadri-Brown
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gio-Andersson
Hanifin-Gustaffson
Valimaki-Kylington

Probably would have gone hunting for a new RD but damn. Nice looking lineup.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah. Hate to rehash but the Kadri trade would have really made us something IMO:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindy
Tkachuk-Kadri-Brown
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gio-Andersson
Hanifin-Gustaffson
Valimaki-Kylington

Probably would have gone hunting for a new RD but damn. Nice looking lineup.

Ugh. This sucks

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah. Hate to rehash but the Kadri trade would have really made us something IMO:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindy
Tkachuk-Kadri-Brown
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gio-Andersson
Hanifin-Gustaffson
Valimaki-Kylington

Probably would have gone hunting for a new RD but damn. Nice looking lineup.

Love the look of this lineup moving forward, but this year could have been a disaster without Brodie, valimaki, gust, and forbort for most...

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah. Hate to rehash but the Kadri trade would have really made us something IMO:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindy
Tkachuk-Kadri-Brown
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gio-Andersson
Hanifin-Gustaffson
Valimaki-Kylington

Probably would have gone hunting for a new RD but damn. Nice looking lineup.

I still look at this and think that Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm won't be a line that allows us to do anything of significance. The line plays a perimeter game that can't effectively establish and control zone time. It's off the rush, or it's bust with that line. I guess we'll see if they can reach another gear, but nothing they've shown us so far gives me all that much hope, but yeah - at least we'd still have Kadri rather than losing Brodie for nothing in free agency.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Results are what matter.

I don't give Treliving any credit for deals that didn't happen, regardless of whether those deals would have been good or bad. There's at least half a dozen of them now.

When Feaster was GM, he almost acquired a top 10 pick in exchange for a Ribero buyout (good), yet he almost lost a top 10 pick to an RFA offer sheet (bad). I don't give him credit for either of these.

Even Paul Byron had a ton of breakaways while he was on the Flames. I don't give him credit for these chances - he didn't score. Same goes for Sam Bennett in the recent exhibition game against Edmonton.

No individuals in the Flames organization should rely on excuses.

Please. I beg of you all. Quit with this false narrative. It was not going to happen. That is why the CBA changed from the MOU.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If they can't get Hall, and they can't acquire a decent top 6 center, then they really need to think about doing a major retool before it's too late.

A lot of focus is always on replacing Backlund as the second line center, and that's very understandable. But honestly is adding a slight upgrade on Backlund which keeps Monahan as the number one center really going to move this team forward? If you can upgrade Monahan to a better overall #1C and Backlund stayed as your 2C...that might ultimately be what is needed to make the team better. I think Backlund as the 2C is less a problem than Monahan as the 1C myself.

So in my eyes, I think you have to look at a retool if you can't find a way to upgrade on Monahan as your top center. Adding another Monahan type to me will not be enough to run with the top teams in the league. It's very likely that the only way to do that will be to draft and develop a player which generally means being a bad team, and needing a few years to let things grow.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

A lot of focus is always on replacing Backlund as the second line center, and that's very understandable. But honestly is adding a slight upgrade on Backlund which keeps Monahan as the number one center really going to move this team forward? If you can upgrade Monahan to a better overall #1C and Backlund stayed as your 2C...that might ultimately be what is needed to make the team better. I think Backlund as the 2C is less a problem than Monahan as the 1C myself.

So in my eyes, I think you have to look at a retool if you can't find a way to upgrade on Monahan as your top center. Adding another Monahan type to me will not be enough to run with the top teams in the league. It's very likely that the only way to do that will be to draft and develop a player which generally means being a bad team, and needing a few years to let things grow.

Ideally you upgrade Monahan sure, but that is even more unlikely IMO than adding a guy that slots in between he and Backlund.

The only shot Tre has at doing that is throwing a massive offer sheet at Barzal and then hoping the Isles can't/don't match.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Ideally you upgrade Monahan sure, but that is even more unlikely IMO than adding a guy that slots in between he and Backlund.

The only shot Tre has at doing that is throwing a massive offer sheet at Barzal and then hoping the Isles can't/don't match.

Well we can speculate on that. But what happens in the next 10 days, might make a player or two more available than what the trade market offers up today type of thing.

I personally think if this team Flames out in these playoffs...I would be inclined to do a pretty harsh tear down and retool things. The team still has 2-3 years of significant cap bogey's that is going to make it hard to really upgrade what the current roster is.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Well we can speculate on that. But what happens in the next 10 days, might make a player or two more available than what the trade market offers up today type of thing.

I personally think if this team Flames out in these playoffs...I would be inclined to do a pretty harsh tear down and retool things. The team still has 2-3 years of significant cap bogey's that is going to make it hard to really upgrade what the current roster is.

Another Flame out combined with no real opportunity to fix the roster and I agree 100%, a tear down is needed. It's poorly constructed team with limited cap flexibility and some key players aging quickly.