[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Par]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

can't really compare the two. the needs of the cities are different.
leaving aside any jokes, Edmonton's downtown was a total wasteland
nothing to do and no reason to go there.
The arena provided the catalyst to spur development in the downtown area that was needed more than Calgary would ever need.

I never knew this but now you mention it, it makes sense.

Originally Posted by getbak

HOLY CRAP! Why hasn't anyone else thought of that?

Until you mentioned it, I thought the most logical plan was to just keep the area around the arena as empty lots for eternity. Now, I've seen the light and think they should probably build other stuff around the arena too.

You should write a letter to the Mayor suggesting that they build other stuff around the new arena.

Why are you being like this, I was just asking.

Originally Posted by getbak

Edmonton ICE District 2009: https://goo.gl/maps/Luz6b24zcHp

That looks awful, yeah I get the point.

Originally Posted by sureLoss

To suggest they won't build anything around the arena is silly to say the least. If it gets built in Victoria Park it sounds like CMLC already has some preliminary plans to turn some of the surrounding land into an entertainment district.

I was just wondering if they were going to build something, thanks for clearing it up. It will be nice to see a mock up video of what it will look like.

[Dr. Pepper]

To reset this thread a little (as I've seen some new posters on here and asking about why build a new arena in the middle of nowhere...)

The Plan B site (pic below) is part of the rivers revitalization area, planned to become a fantastic district tied into the cultural / entertainment elements just to the north and west of the site. The stampede also has designs to remake olympic way and join it into 17th ave which will be brought through mcleod trail somehow. Look at some prior posts with maps / diagrams at the start of this thread to get a feel for it.

Also - the green line LRT expansion will have a stop within a block of the site.

Personally I'm preferring this direction to CalgaryNEXT...

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by GGG

Yes, but they did not receive any additional money relative to Calgary for the purposes of constructing an arena.

Correct.

[Par]

Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper

To reset this thread a little (as I've seen some new posters on here and asking about why build a new arena in the middle of nowhere...)

The Plan B site (pic below) is part of the rivers revitalization area, planned to become a fantastic district tied into the cultural / entertainment elements just to the north and west of the site. The stampede also has designs to remake olympic way and join it into 17th ave which will be brought through mcleod trail somehow. Look at some prior posts with maps / diagrams at the start of this thread to get a feel for it.

Also - the green line LRT expansion will have a stop within a block of the site.

Personally I'm preferring this direction to CalgaryNEXT...

Thanks for this, do you think that the plans(area designs, arena designs and the costs) for new arena(be it CalgaryNext or Victoria Park-mostly likely will be the Victoria Park), will be ready before October.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Par

Thanks for this, do you think that the plans(area designs, arena designs and the costs) for new arena(be it CalgaryNext or Victoria Park-mostly likely will be the Victoria Park), will be ready before October.

Yes I do.

[powderjunkie]

October of which year?

[powderjunkie]

The middle of nowhere debate is interesting - it is really a trade off between vehicle access/egress/parking, and pedestrian vibrancy. Bigger cities have the existing density, capable transit systems, and general lifestyle that make it possible to plunk an arena in the middle of a busy area with limited parking.

That's not Calgary. Imagine the arena was built where the Bow Building not stands. Or Eau Claire. Or North Hill Mall. Or CNext proposed location. None of those locations could really be called 'middle of nowhere' (except CNext). But I don't think any of them would work any better in terms of 'vibrancy'. They wouldn't be any better for transit, but would be much worse for cars.

Calgary isn't New York, Toronto, Montreal, or even Vancouver. Cars are king here, and the Vic Park location is the best compromise to serving vehicular traffic, with the potential to achieve the entertainment district 'vibrancy' everyone desires.

There is only one conceivable pipe-dream location to me that might have been even better of both worlds: between 9th ave and 10th Ave SW and 5th St-7th St. (where the old Alberta Boot used to be) - but, there are considerable drawbacks that make it impossible (space not quite big enough, land ownership, not to mention the substantial added cost of designing a building over the CN tracks/sinking the tracks, etc.). Even if all of those things were engineered, I still don't think it would be the MSG type situation people are dreaming of.

[getbak]

This isn't really related to the arena, but I found this interesting with regards to the ever-changing face of Stampede Park.

On Thursday, the Stampede tweeted this photo of the Park in 1956.

Spoiler!

It's huge, so I spoilered it. It's best seen if you open it in a new window.


From what I can tell, the intersection in the photo is Macleod Trail and 17th Ave. If that's correct, the houses in the lower left corner are now the Victoria Park C-Train Station.

The fort walls around the Park are still partially there. The guard towers of the fort inside the Park are still there too, by Rotary House now.

Other than that, I think the only other building that's still around is the Pavilion, which is the building that butts up against the race track on the left side of the photo.

If it's from 1956, it's a couple of years before the Big Four Building was built. The Corral would have been there, so it must be just outside the frame on the left side of the photo. I've never really thought about it, but if you were to extend 17th Ave straight east through the BMO Centre, it would be adjacent to the north side of the Corral.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

calgary isn't new york, toronto, montreal, or even vancouver. trucks are king here, and the vic park location is the best compromise to serving vehicular traffic, with the potential to achieve the entertainment district 'vibrancy' everyone desires.

fyp

[Par]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

october of which year?

2017.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Par

2017.

Doubtful.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

That's not Calgary. Imagine the arena was built where the Bow Building not stands. Or Eau Claire. Or North Hill Mall. Or CNext proposed location. None of those locations could really be called 'middle of nowhere' (except CNext). But I don't think any of them would work any better in terms of 'vibrancy'. They wouldn't be any better for transit, but would be much worse for cars.

Calgary isn't New York, Toronto, Montreal, or even Vancouver. Cars are king here, and the Vic Park location is the best compromise to serving vehicular traffic, with the potential to achieve the entertainment district 'vibrancy' everyone desires.

You're ignoring the entire purpose of the East Village development though. Hell, there's now even discussion starting about taking advantage of the office vacancy rates downtown to turn some buildings into mixed use office/residential towers. Not too long ago planners in Pittsburgh where similar conversions have been taking place were invited here to discuss the possibility of doing something similar in Calgary's downtown core to bring up residency levels.

People are starting to understand that Calgary's development priorities in the 70s and 80s are producing a lot of problems in the here and now. It's not just a matter of handwaving it away as being 'different', it's a woefully inefficient way to structure a city in virtually every definition of the word. TO, Montreal, and Vancouver aren't exempt from having planning issues but nobody is complaining about a lack of vibrancy in any of those places. If you want better 'vibrancy' in the city core you need ways to get less people to flee to Mahogany or Paramount as soon as the clock hits 5, in all of your counterexample cities there's a wealth of compelling reasons in their respective downtowns for large amounts of people to stick around. Calgary as-is has few. An arena/entertainment district within the core (I'm willing to regard the Saddledome/Vic West location as fitting that definition, at least for me it's easily walkable from downtown/the East Village and it's one stop removed from the free fare zone) works to provide some of that incentive. Having more people actually living within the core works even better.

[powderjunkie]

^ I don't think we disagree on anything. I don't think the arena is in the middle of nowhere; I think it's about as good of a location as possible, all things considered.

The point of my post was to ask the few people who have called Vic Park the middle of nowhere, where exactly would be better?

[Tyler]

https://twitter.com/CBCScott/status/862122369451790338

Jeff Fielding (City Manager) just said this in Council:

"If we don't have an offer sheet in next 6-8 weeks, 'we'll be passing'.

[Bunk]

Hmmm, I don't know if the CBA allows an offer sheet in this situation. ;-)

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Tyler

https://twitter.com/CBCScott/status/862122369451790338

Jeff Fielding (City Manager) just said this in Council:

"If we don't have an offer sheet in next 6-8 weeks, 'we'll be passing'.

I understand what was meant was if the City doesn't have anything more concrete to take to the public in the next 6-8 weeks it will be too late to do anything prior to the municipal election.

[Senator Clay Davis]

6-8 weeks should be doable now that King has to leave Treliving alone.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

6-8 weeks should be doable now that King has to leave Treliving alone.

He's just gotta reach into the drawer of his desk for the plans and pictures.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

He's just gotta reach into the drawer of his desk for the plans and pictures.

Should we mail him a jumbo pack of cocktail napkins to facilitate the process?

[sureLoss]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/c...king-1.4108060

Mayor Naheed Nenshi was responding to an observation recently made by city manager Jeff Fielding.

"He was simply suggesting that if we are not in a position where there is really something to share with the public on any public financing for a new arena in the next six to eight weeks, it's going to be hard to do it before the election," Nenshi said.

"It is true that this council stops in September, and then would not be in a position to be in a decision-making meeting until November. So at that point, if you're a brand new council and it's your first meeting, it's hard for me to imagine that they'd want to deal with that at their first meeting."