American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's NOT the main issue. The economy, immigration, and abortion are the main issues. The Middle East is a distant 4th and only that high because of a very noisy minority group. The demographics of the state of Michigan and voters look like this.

White: 75.73%
Black or African American: 13.56%
Two or more races: 5.4%
Asian: 3.26%
Other race: 1.57% (Arabs fall in this group)
Native American: 0.45%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.03%

This is a very tight election, so those Arab voters could have an impact on the outcome of the election, just like any voting block, especially if they do something incredibly stupid and vote for a candidate who would be worse for their cause than the one they claim to have an axe to grind. It would be the epitome of stupid to not understand the gravity of this vote.

But if you want to make this an election based on a issue that never changes, go ahead and be stupid and vote for Trump, because he WILL give the Israelis access to the heavy munitions the Biden admin is holding back, and then give Netanyahu the green light to complete the very genocide you believe to be happening. Worse, he will do exactly what he says and round up those Arab immigrants and remove them from the country, sending them bac k to the very war-torn areas they fled from. Yes, the Arab voters could have an impact in this election. An impact on their ability to stay in the country and be safe from the conditions they fled from. They may sway the election, but if they do, they will do the most harm to themselves. And THAT is ####ing stupid.

The Biden admin only held back the heavy bombs for a limited time period. I personally agree that Kamala is the better choice, but to think that people should absolutely vote for her even as Gaza and now Lebanon are getting levelled is stupid.

[PepsiFree]

People who voted for Trump and are likely to vote Trump again are probably a lost cause, but I don’t know about the rest. If I were confronted with the prospect of convincing undecideds and people who have issues with the Democrats that could, in theory, be overcome… I might come better equipped and have something more compelling than “you’re stupid” and “not voting is the exact same as voting, BUT FOR THE OTHER GUY!!”

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

The Biden admin only held back the heavy bombs for a limited time period. I personally agree that Kamala is the better choice, but to think that people should absolutely vote for her even as Gaza and now Lebanon are getting levelled is stupid.

But what's the other choice? Problem here is you only have two and the one you want isn't one of them.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

https://twitter.com/user/status/1848064195335516312

They should make a special Donald McTitty

This was, of course, staged. Everyone involved was either screened or acting. I guess they learned from that JD Vance donut shop fiasco not to try to talk to actual human beings.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

The Biden admin only held back the heavy bombs for a limited time period. I personally agree that Kamala is the better choice, but to think that people should absolutely vote for her even as Gaza and now Lebanon are getting levelled is stupid.

Elections are not single issue decisions points. People that approach them that way are stupid. Almost as stupid as those who vote for personalities instead of understanding the very issues driving the election. Also, if you're making voting decisions with an emphasis on what happens in another country and ignoring what is happening inside the one where your vote counts, then you've lost the plot.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Elections are not single issue decisions points. People that approach them that way are stupid. Almost as stupid as those who vote for personalities instead of understanding the very issues driving the election. Also, if you're making voting decisions with an emphasis on what happens in another country and ignoring what is happening inside the one where your vote counts, then you've lost the plot.

Yeah, what is with these people who care about kids dying in a place where they don't even live, how selfish.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Yeah, what is with these people who care about kids dying in a place where they don't even live, how selfish.

I’m more concerned about what happens in my country and the damage policies can be done here. I’m more concerned about the kids dying in the United States because of bad economic policies, bad social policies, and bad governance. We continue to lose our freedoms and install a Christian Nationalist regime and the whole world will be ####ed. Yes, very selfish.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Yeah, what is with these people who care about kids dying in a place where they don't even live, how selfish.

Voting 3rd party or staying home is not how you show you care.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

https://twitter.com/user/status/1848064195335516312

They should make a special Donald McTitty

Even if he doesn't win Trump should go down in history as the biggest con-man in history, bigger than Charles Ponzi, Victor Lustig or anyone else one can think of, it amazes me how many people buy into his BS.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Voting 3rd party or staying home is not how you show you care.

So you’re saying Republicans who vote for Trump despite disagreeing with him on several issues and not thinking he’s the best candidate, but just because their Republicans, are better and more caring than Republican voters who actual abstain from voting because of the above?

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

So you’re saying Republicans who vote for Trump despite disagreeing with him on several issues and not thinking he’s the best candidate, but just because their Republicans, are better and more caring than Republican voters who actual abstain from voting because of the above?

He's talking about Democrats only. The heiarchy is:

1. Harris Supporters
2. Anti-Harris who vote Dem
3. Republic Abstainers
4. Apolitical non-voters
5. Third party voters
6. Anti-Harris Abstainers
7. a. Anti-Trump who vote Rep
7. b. Trump Supporters

Anyone in the bottom 5 sucks.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

You can make some good money in the betting markets based on your confidence.

Yup. I was just saying that last night. Harris is being underbet right now by quite a significant margin. It's a real nice bet to make given the odds.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

Having faith in institutional democratic structures is how we got here in the first place. It started off with Trump denying mail in ballots, followed by him calling Governers to overturn votes, which resulted in Oence having to emotionally accept election results, which resulted in January 6 calling for the hanging of Mike Pence. Breaking democratic structures. The structures in place saved the day, but it was close. And here’s the start of the intentional breaking of democratic norms.

We started with presidential immunity given by the courts. Now we have Trump openly bribing for votes (see Musk and his $1,000,000 donations a day), plans of mass deportations without due process, openly calling for prosecution of his enemies, which could very well transition into demonizing people who voted democrat, and it feels as if you’re brushing aside legitimate (and perhaps over the top, but understandable) concern for the destruction of democracy. Does it really matter how long it takes the democratic structures to fall if we’re already experiencing it, with little to no solution, even if Harris wins the election? The republicans are hell bent on restructuring the US government norms, regardless if Trump is in power or not. He’s just the best avenue for it. The party has been fully taken over by extremists unwilling to compromise in most situations. We’re already here. The link to strong democracy is gone. And now Republicans, aided by Trump, are salivating over breaking every chain of it.

My contention wasn’t that democracy wouldn’t continue to be damaged. It was Trump wouldn’t get a third term. So yes it does matter how long it takes to destroy democracy in the discussion we were having.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by GGG

My contention wasn’t that democracy wouldn’t continue to be damaged. It was Trump wouldn’t get a third term.

Right. He can't just declare himself dictator. There's still a constitutional amendment that limits him to two terms and even if he gets three more SCOTUS picks he'll still have to get 2/3 of both Houses of Congress to even propose a change. Then 3/4 of the States have to ratify it. How does he get around that short of a military coup?

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Even if Harris wins this (which I still think she might, but it's gonna be razor thin), my faith in humanity is pretty much gone at this point. The fact that this race is still basically a coin toss is beyond embarrassing and incredibly depressing, not just for the U.S., but for Canada and the rest of the world as well.

That roughly 50% of the electorate are perfectly cool with destroying their democracy just blows my mind. Way to spit on the graves of the hundreds of thousands of Americans who fought and died to defeat fascism and keep it at bay. Unreal. What a time to be alive.

In the short term you are 100% correct.

But the pendulum always swings. I say that as an old man. Watch for the markers.

The first will be the rejection of the 2nd amendment by the current children doing shooting drills in school.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

Right. He can't just declare himself dictator. There's still a constitutional amendment that limits him to two terms and even if he gets three more SCOTUS picks he'll still have to get 2/3 of both Houses of Congress to even propose a change. Then 3/4 of the States have to ratify it. How does he get around that short of a military coup?

The Supreme Court ruled that Donald Trump can be a dictator though, Justice Sotomayor wrote "he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Can order the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune. Sotomayor writes in the final decision of the Supreme Court's term, "Because our Constitution does not shield a former President from answering for criminal and treasonous acts, I dissent."


However, there is a window if he wins, Biden could kill Trump between Nov 4th and Jan 6th if he wins

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

So you’re saying Republicans who vote for Trump despite disagreeing with him on several issues and not thinking he’s the best candidate, but just because their Republicans, are better and more caring than Republican voters who actual abstain from voting because of the above?

I don't think anyone is saying that. What I'm saying is that both sides have their habits. The Republicans who are so repulsed by Trump have made it clear they'll support Harris. But there's a lot of them who have a milder disapproval who will show up and vote.

Is it dumb, is it a habit that should change? Sure. Is it going to change in the next 16 days? No.

It's a habit that contributed to Trump winning in 2016. If he somehow wins on November 5th, this habit will play a big part in the how the hell did this happen investigations that come out.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

So you’re saying Republicans who vote for Trump despite disagreeing with him on several issues and not thinking he’s the best candidate, but just because their Republicans, are better and more caring than Republican voters who actual abstain from voting because of the above?

The exact opposite. Right wingers who refuse to vote for Trump (because they understand how dangerous and depraved he is) are much better and more caring than those who vote for him.

People who vote for Harris (because they understand the obvious need to keep Trump out of office, and also understand that he would make the Gaza situation even worse) are making a more sensible, responsible choice than those who stay home or vote 3rd party.

Bonus points for right wingers (usual Republican voters) who vote for Harris.

Look, I acknowledge that this is a very painful situation, and anyone who has seen the footage of devastation and suffering in Gaza will feel anger and frustration. It's normal to want retribution when you see something like that, and it's amplified many fold if your friends or family members are victims of the carnage.

It is never my intent to shame or scold anyone. Those who don't think they can bring themselves to vote for Harris because of Gaza - I mean them no ill will, and I don't think they deserve to be called any names. All I'm saying is look, will you please think this over and give some more consideration toward voting for Harris? Trump will make things worse for everyone - Gaza, America, and the entire world! Is getting revenge on Democrats really worth all that?

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

Right. He can't just declare himself dictator. There's still a constitutional amendment that limits him to two terms and even if he gets three more SCOTUS picks he'll still have to get 2/3 of both Houses of Congress to even propose a change. Then 3/4 of the States have to ratify it. How does he get around that short of a military coup?

The Supreme Court has shown that they have no hesitation in interpreting the constitution in bizarre, nonsensical ways. Besides, there's nothing in the constitution that says he can't run as VP in 2028, and the newly inaugurated president steps down on day 1, allowing him to become president again.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This was, of course, staged. Everyone involved was either screened or acting. I guess they learned from that JD Vance donut shop fiasco not to try to talk to actual human beings.

Yes, it was a closed down store with paid or volunteer workers and customers. They even rehearsed ordering. So embarrassing. Remember when morons lost their minds when someone wore a tan suit? Republicans and supporters are a laughing stock and rightfully so.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The Supreme Court has shown that they have no hesitation in interpreting the constitution in bizarre, nonsensical ways. Besides, there's nothing in the constitution that says he can't run as VP in 2028, and the newly inaugurated president steps down on day 1, allowing him to become president again.

The 12th Amendment states:

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.