03-01-2022, 10:29 AM
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#2221
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
What's nuts about it? This is pretty much bang on the security reports I have read. I even made a suggestion on thursday that Ukraine could find itself as a rump state around Lviv as a potential offramp, and it looks like the Russians agree. Without western intervention it is hard to imagine a better scenario for Ukraine. As valiant as their efforts have been, they are fighting a much larger foe, and Putin seems to be taking measures to insulate himself from assassination.
Slava Ukraini. #### Putin.
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Huh? What do you mean what's nuts about it? They are DIVVYING UP THE UKRAINE on a map. In 2022. That is ####ING NUTS.
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03-01-2022, 10:31 AM
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#2222
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Franchise Player
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No they're not. They're separating it into zones for the purposes of military planning.
The ideal Russian outcome of this is not "divvying up Ukraine", it's leaving Ukraine intact, subject to perhaps a few areas in the south and east becoming Russian to connect to Crimea, and then installing a friendly regime in Kiev to govern a new, more Russia-beholden, more Belarus-esque version of Ukraine.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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03-01-2022, 10:33 AM
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#2223
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Participant  |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
What's nuts about it? This is pretty much bang on the security reports I have read. I even made a suggestion on thursday that Ukraine could find itself as a rump state around Lviv as a potential offramp, and it looks like the Russians agree. Without western intervention it is hard to imagine a better scenario for Ukraine. As valiant as their efforts have been, they are fighting a much larger foe, and Putin seems to be taking measures to insulate himself from assassination.
Slava Ukraini. #### Putin.
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I have read the same thing. Essentially, if Ukraine has no interest in being a buffer between Russia and Europe/the West/NATO, then Putin wants the country split up into four sections with the two border states under heavy influence of Russia and the two others free to join the EU.
If this leads to peace in the short term, I do not see it as an entirely bad thing.
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03-01-2022, 10:38 AM
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#2224
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muta
Huh? What do you mean what's nuts about it? They are DIVVYING UP THE UKRAINE on a map. In 2022. That is ####ING NUTS.
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That part is obviously nuts- but we're way beyond that now.
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03-01-2022, 10:42 AM
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#2225
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
That part is obviously nuts- but we're way beyond that now.
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Cool, but it's still unbelievable that this is actually happening. Point still stands.
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03-01-2022, 10:50 AM
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#2226
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muta
Cool, but it's still unbelievable that this is actually happening. Point still stands.
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Indeed. Also, please cease referring to Ukraine as "the Ukraine".
https://time.com/12597/the-ukraine-or-ukraine/
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03-01-2022, 10:50 AM
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#2227
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
No they're not. They're separating it into zones for the purposes of military planning.
The ideal Russian outcome of this is not "divvying up Ukraine", it's leaving Ukraine intact, subject to perhaps a few areas in the south and east becoming Russian to connect to Crimea, and then installing a friendly regime in Kiev to govern a new, more Russia-beholden, more Belarus-esque version of Ukraine.
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This seems like your speculation, rather than fact. I have no idea what Russia's end-game is. I don't think you are privy to that information either.
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03-01-2022, 10:53 AM
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#2228
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leondros
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I'm gonna guess that Russian weapons aren't to high tech, especially those in the field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
I don't want to see these used on any humans, but I suppose if Russians must invade Ukraine they can suffer it.
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#### that.
If Russia didn't want them used they shouldn't have introduced them to the battlefield.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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03-01-2022, 10:57 AM
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#2229
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
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Okay? I'm Ukrainian and so is my entire extended family, and whether you like or not, we use both versions and have for many years. It's less of an issue than you think.
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03-01-2022, 10:58 AM
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#2230
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muta
Okay? I'm Ukrainian and so is my entire extended family, and whether you like or not, we use both versions and have for many years. It's less of an issue than you think.
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What part of Ukraine were you born?
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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03-01-2022, 10:59 AM
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#2231
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 Posted the 6 millionth post! |
For the record, I think the Lukashenko map shows the four Ukrainian command areas, not a slicing up of the country - although perhaps that is part of a the long-game is to divide along those lines.
As for Transnitria, sure it's a Russian current staging point but it is quite weird to show on a map military pushes into already existing 'occupied areas' in Moldova. My guess is they will formalize this as a Russian point of entry and force Moldova's hand that it is now "Russian territory" or at least an independent territory favorable to Russian command.
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03-01-2022, 11:00 AM
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#2232
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
What part of Ukraine were you born?
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I'm Canadian first and foremost; Ukrainian is my family's heritage.
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03-01-2022, 11:04 AM
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#2233
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muta
Okay? I'm Ukrainian and so is my entire extended family, and whether you like or not, we use both versions and have for many years. It's less of an issue than you think.
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I too am of Ukrainian heritage, though removed by generations. I just think that we should consciously do everything possible to refer to Ukraine as separate of Russia, and I think this is part of it.
I hope you have a good day.
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03-01-2022, 11:06 AM
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#2234
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
I too am of Ukrainian heritage, though removed by generations. I just think that we should consciously do everything possible to refer to Ukraine as separate of Russia, and I think this is part of it.
I hope you have a good day.
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Fair enough, I can agree with that. 
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03-01-2022, 11:07 AM
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#2235
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Posted the 6 millionth post! |
If you want to separate as much as possible from Russia, then when you refer to Kyiv, Ukrainians say "Kee-yiv", which Russians say "Kee-yev" (generally speaking). To pronounce it the Ukrainian way is a good way to show support.
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03-01-2022, 11:17 AM
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#2236
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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I would not at all be surprised if Ukraine ends up in an East-West Germany or North-South Korea type of situation, whether that was the original intent or not.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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03-01-2022, 11:22 AM
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#2237
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvitaly
This seems like your speculation, rather than fact. I have no idea what Russia's end-game is. I don't think you are privy to that information either.
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I can make some educated guesses, based on both actions and rhetoric, and what simply makes sense. There's really no point in even trying to annex the Ukraine, you'll just get insurgents and spend a bunch of lives and money trying to hold onto it. A puppet regime achieves more or less all of the same benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
If Russia didn't want them used they shouldn't have introduced them to the battlefield.
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The concern is that if the Ukrainians use them, it gives some cover to the Russians using theirs, and they have many more of them, and when the Russians use them civilians will suffer as well as soldiers.
My two cents is that the Ukrainians should publicly announce that they have captured the thing and will destroy it on the grounds that the use of thermobaric weapons in civilian areas by either side would be unthinkable, irredeemable barbarism, worthy of the same sort of condemnation that would attend the use of chemical weapons. Set the narrative while reaffirming who the hero of the story is, because global support has been Ukraine's most powerful weapon to date and will continue to be the best way to hurt their invaders.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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03-01-2022, 11:26 AM
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#2238
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Use it because Russia will anyhow, they can't be shamed into stopping. Maybe the kids driving that one ditched it because they didn't want to, but others will follow orders.
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03-01-2022, 11:29 AM
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#2239
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city
Use it because Russia will anyhow, they can't be shamed into stopping. Maybe the kids driving that one ditched it because they didn't want to, but others will follow orders.
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Yep, there are no moral victories when dealing with an aggressor on your own soil. History has shown that people like Putin won't stop until they suffer losses and sometimes that means fighting fire with fire.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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03-01-2022, 11:30 AM
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#2240
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muta
Huh? What do you mean what's nuts about it? They are DIVVYING UP THE UKRAINE on a map. In 2022. That is ####ING NUTS.
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Those lines are for the Ukrainian ground forces Operational Command.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oper..._Command_South
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