Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Goriders]

Think the answer to that was yes. It would most likely be the same as the QPP

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Goriders

When I listened I would say yes. Per above. They weren’t focusing on the pile of money. There focus was on the long term benefit of the alternative set up.

Where is your loyalty line? Clearly it's smaller than Canada, so by what logic do you end it at Alberta? Where is your FYGM line?

[WideReceiver]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

Dumb question...Would people who lived and worked in Alberta but no longer do be entitled to a portion of their pension?

Not a stupid question at all. That describes me and if I left Alberta I’d still get my pension I’ve earned and paid for. Honestly, I think that the chance of Alberta leaving the CPP is very low.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Fair enough. But I guess the point I’m trying to make and I think you agree based on what you said is that we’d get a better return running our own pension.

If that is the case why wouldn’t you do it? Does anyone do that with thier investments outside of the CPP?

I don’t know if we could, but it seems likely. Need consider few other things though…
- what happens in the future if demographics and income turn on us? That’s what happened to Quebec. Being in a bigger plan has advantages.
- is AIMCO a good enough manager?
- will the provincial government direct investment to potentially riskier local projects? They’ve hinted that they will.
- how does portability work? If someone contributes elsewhere and moves to Alberta or vice versa who pays what? Worst case, someone who benefited from lower contributions might get lower payout if they move out of province. Details to be worked out.

All of the above are uncertainties. Showstoppers? Don’t know, but enough to give many people pause

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Are we a country, or a collection of fiefdoms resentful at the fortunate resource wealth we lucked into? This whole discussion is pretty ####ing gross to me, looking to maximize whatever we can from our fortunes, to #### over other Canadians, they should have pulled up there bootstraps more. Unreal.

Maybe once we get an APP we should make sure the cities get a larger share, and neighborhoods like Mt Royal have generated the most wealth, probably deserve 50% of it. Sorry, One Four, you get pennies.

Goddamn this disappoints me as a Canadian to hear fellow Albertans looking to maximize their own gains. Some of you people disgust me. Look in the ####ing mirror. Greed. A true virtue, right?

I've said this before. People see Canada as 'fractured.'

I've never felt less 'Canadian' in my life. We're like a squabbling family.

We're not a Country, we're a loosely affiliated coalition of Confederated states trapped together by inconvenient geography.

The Ultimate country of 'FU! I got mine!' Nobody co-operates. Nobody thinks of the benefits to the entire Country only themselves.

Rampant, un-fettered selfishness. The most Canadian of personality traits.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by indes

CPP is a federal program that gets paid into on an individual level. Alberta being "taken advantage" of is akin to saying old white dudes are being taken advantage of by paying more golf membership fees than other demographics.

Actually, everyone whose working years fall mostly or entirely after 1990 is getting taken advantage of by paying for both their own CPP and the CPP previous generations voted themselves but decided not to pay for.

It happens that Alberta has grown so fast we have many more people that fit that description than other provinces.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've said this before. People see Canada as 'fractured.'

I've never felt less 'Canadian' in my life. We're like a squabbling family.

We're not a Country, we're a loosely affiliated coalition of Confederated states trapped together by inconvenient geography.

The Ultimate country of 'FU! I got mine!' Nobody co-operates. Nobody thinks of the benefits to the entire Country only themselves.

Rampant, un-fettered selfishness. The most Canadian of personality traits.

At least half of ‘Canada is broken’ comes from people repeating ‘Canada is broken’

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Where is your loyalty line? Clearly it's smaller than Canada, so by what logic do you end it at Alberta? Where is your FYGM line?

It’s part of my retirement savings. How far do I have to go?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by edslunch

At least half of ‘Canada is broken’ comes from people repeating ‘Canada is broken’

Exactly. Canada wasn't fractured until the right wing/conspiracy/populist movement made its way to Canada and informed our dumbest, most gullible citizens that Canada s fractured.

[Fuzz]

It’s part of my retirement savings. How far do I have to go?

Just wondering where the cutoff is for being Canadian, but also thinking you are entitled to more of other people's money than they are. And who somehow deserves most, as if Albertans have somehow worked harder than other Canadians and are thus entitled to more pie.



If you don't want to be part of Canada and our systems of equality across the country, well then leave. Because all stuff like this does is drive division. There is no defensible ground to stand on here that isn't greed. Stop being greedy.

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Exactly. Canada wasn't fractured until the right wing/conspiracy/populist movement made its way to Canada and informed our dumbest, most gullible citizens that Canada s fractured.

And that the only cure is to fracture it worse; with our own pension, our own police, our own whatever.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

Dumb question...Would people who lived and worked in Alberta but no longer do be entitled to a portion of their pension?

The answer must be yes, but the next question is what are they entitled to? Let's say the APP has lower contribution rates and higher payouts. When an Albertan retires to BC do they still get the higher payout? Or, do their contributions get sent to the CPP where they would fund a much lower payout (since they contributed at well-below CPP rates)?

Likewise when someone contributes to the CPP then retires in Alberta do they keep their CPP or do they switch to APP. If they switch to APP and their previous contributions come with them do they get a super-pension since they contributed at well-above APP rates?

If someone contributes to both in their lifetime do they get both pensions, each for relative to the time and contributions? If so, do two 15 year pensions payout as much as one 30 year pension, or are they leaving money on the table?

So many questions.... I'm sure our resident accountants/financial planners could send some light on this based on how private-sector pensions are handled.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If you don't want to be part of Canada and our systems of equality across the country, well then leave. Because all stuff like this does is drive division. There is no defensible ground to stand on here that isn't greed. Stop being greedy.

Does it even matter who manages the pension? Are some thinking if Alberta is able to do better at managing it that it would increase the amount they receive or something? I mean, if I was going to get the same result in the end, then I'd rather someone else take all the risk of managing it.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Just wondering where the cutoff is for being Canadian, but also thinking you are entitled to more of other people's money than they are. And who somehow deserves most, as if Albertans have somehow worked harder than other Canadians and are thus entitled to more pie.



If you don't want to be part of Canada and our systems of equality across the country, well then leave. Because all stuff like this does is drive division. There is no defensible ground to stand on here that isn't greed. Stop being greedy.

Are you saying I have to leave the country to get a better rate of return? I don’t want anyone else’s money I just want to maximize the rate of return on mine.

I don’t understand how that is being greedy. That’s why you invesf money.

Can you expand on your statement?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Just wondering where the cutoff is for being Canadian, but also thinking you are entitled to more of other people's money than they are. And who somehow deserves most, as if Albertans have somehow worked harder than other Canadians and are thus entitled to more pie.



If you don't want to be part of Canada and our systems of equality across the country, well then leave. Because all stuff like this does is drive division. There is no defensible ground to stand on here that isn't greed. Stop being greedy.

You are drinking the right wing kool-aid with your "if you don't like it, just leave" thinking. You have come full circle in your ideology.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

You are drinking the right wing kool-aid with your "if you don't like it, just leave" thinking. You have come full circle in your ideology.

Can you give a comparable “conservative” example of this ideology with a specific reference.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Goriders

If you copied the portfolio investment performance would be a wash. That wasn’t the benefit though. I believe it was the structure of the CPP and its overhead that was the carrot.

Reduced overhead or management expense fee ultimately and that older demographic regions get more benefit than younger.

Like I said above. I can’t remember the fine details. I’ll try and find the arguments and post them here.

Just to be clear though, you can’t just copy the investments. It’s not like this is a portfolio of public equities where you just say “OK, they have 3.5% in Suncor, 4% Microsoft…” and mirror it. They’ve done all kinds of private equity deals, private credit and infrastructure that you can’t just replicate. You not only cannot get access to a piece of all those deals, but you can’t get the same terms and match that structure. But here’s a massive point that we should be considering; CPPIB is globally respected and they’re recognized for their competency for good reason. Why you would be in a rush to fix what’s not broken is beyond me.

Anyway, just thought I’d make it clear that you can’t replicate the CPP on a provincial level. And interestingly, if the province wanted to try, they’d be spending a pile more money to get a bunch of qualified people to run the private equity/credit and other like investments. They just fired the board of Aimco ostensibly because they weren’t happy with returns (which were completed fine, by the way) and they weren’t happy deemed too expensive (they were not!). I would be stunned to see them layout the kind of money you’d need to build this out to have the qualifications and similar roster to what you see with CPPIB.

[Fuzz]

It's almost like the UCP doesn't know what the #### they are doing.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

You are drinking the right wing kool-aid with your "if you don't like it, just leave" thinking. You have come full circle in your ideology.

I'm just saying if all you care about is money, there are much better countries for that. It's not very intelligent to try to force change when that is easily available elsewhere. Go there. Get rich.. eat it or shove it up your ass at that point, I don't care.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by fuzz

i'm just saying if all you care about is money, there are much better countries for that. It's not very intelligent to try to force change when that is easily available elsewhere. Go there. Get rich.. Eat it or shove it up your ass at that point, i don't care.

100%