2023 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[Jiri Hrdina]

I saw a good video that suggested that the issue is the pitch clock, and it's causing him (a bigger guy) to be exhausted faster.

[Sylvanfan]

The pitch clock isn't going to be so kind to C.C.Sabathia type physiques. Best get in shape if you want a 10 year career on the bump.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Fatigue could explain why his fundamentals aren’t as good which could impact the speed on his fastball. The weird thing is that it’s not like he’s been mowing players down early in the game when he is relatively fresh.

[Beninho]

Manoah sucking is definitely not something I would have predicted. Can only hope he figures it out. Maybe he is dealing with an injury it is strange

[Blaster86]

Glad it's been brought up. Manoah looks bigger this year than he did last and he came in being a big boy. Guys like Wells, Sabathia etc, are mutants. Most people cannot perform at the weight they performed at. It's not healthy. It's not sustainable. Add in a forced change in his mechanics with the pitch clock and he's just a hot mess.

The team put their foot down with Vladdy and pushed him to lose weight. They'll need to do the same thing with Manoah for both short term success and long term health.

[ben voyonsdonc]

A phantom injury could be helpful. He was rushed to the big leagues and his basics are not really baked in. He could use a few weeks of trying to work on some of the fundamental parts of his delivery.

[Blaster86]

This could also just be a case of development being a non-linear path that will see ups and downs. But the pitch clock with his weight and having to learn to adapt are a big part of it. He was always pretty slow in the lead up to his pitches.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Yeah. There’s probably a degree of the opposition having adjusted to Manoah’s game and he needs to counter that. I don’t think he’s ever really had to do that. Throughout his entire life, he likely hasn’t not be dominant and he’s got to work through it. But his location is still bad.

Kirk in the eighth spot is very interesting. It’s usually reserved for the weakest hitter on the team. Trying to take some pressure off of him.

[flamingred89]

My god Kirk. Like really? I know you're slow but that was the slowest double play I've ever seen. Even with a triple clutch at 2nd. Yikes.

[ben voyonsdonc]

The second baseman could walk to first and beat Kirk there.

If anyone is wondering why people were calling for Kirk to be traded instead of Moreno…this is it.

[Beninho]

Is it too hard to ask professional athletes getting paid millions to stay in shape? Manoah and kirk are very overweight. Even right there most guys would have made that just a force out at second but Kirk just jogs it out. Like I don’t think its a huge ask, it is not the 90’s anymore. Look at vladdy, get a trainer lose the weight. Your beer belly only limits your potential.

[flamingred89]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

The second baseman could walk to first and beat Kirk there.

If anyone is wondering why people were calling for Kirk to be traded instead of Moreno…this is it.

Just out of curiosity I had to check Moreno's stats as it's been awhile. Dude has been playing very well as of late. Now hitting .320 with an OPS+ of 105 and 1.0bWAR. Good for him.

[steveo]

rough night for Manoah, damn

[flamingred89]

Sigh. Judge swung. And that was a borderline miss for ball 3 too. But don't tell Yankee fans. They think he gets screwed every AB.

Oh well. I do have to thank Manoah for opening up my evening now.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Umps don’t provide charity to pitchers who can’t throw strikes. If Manoah was filling up the strike zone he might get the benefit of the doubt on some of these calls.

Manoah needs a few starts off. Whatever he’s doing, it isn’t working at all. He needs a reset.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by flamingred89

Just out of curiosity I had to check Moreno's stats as it's been awhile. Dude has been playing very well as of late. Now hitting .320 with an OPS+ of 105 and 1.0bWAR. Good for him.

I bet if they had traded Kirk, they wouldn’t have needed to include Gurriel. Instead, they could have moved Gurriel for additional bullpen help - similar to the deal for Teo. Might be a decision that really bites them.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Is it too hard to ask professional athletes getting paid millions to stay in shape? Manoah and kirk are very overweight. Even right there most guys would have made that just a force out at second but Kirk just jogs it out. Like I don’t think its a huge ask, it is not the 90’s anymore. Look at vladdy, get a trainer lose the weight. Your beer belly only limits your potential.

Careful. Around here some see logic as fat shaming. Manoah is honestly teetering on that plane. Under that he's a muscular guy - you can see it. I imagine if he just changes his diet slightly he could make a huge difference. There's also a chance this doesn't relate to his weight but it certainly can't hurt to lose a bit. He's a professional athlete - it should be mandatory to do what's necessary at that salary.

[Kasi]

Manoah looks the part of a frontline starter, standing 6’6 and weighing 270 pounds, and has the fastball to match. His heater sits in the mid-90s, reaching as high as 98 miles per hour, according to Perfect Game. Both FanGraphs and MLB Pipeline have labeled it a 65 pitch on the 20-80 scouting scale, close to double-plus.

Now four years later same guy sits 92.5. I do think Kirks kid this spring really did throw off his spring training. He missed the WBC and came to camp really late.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I bet if they had traded Kirk, they wouldn’t have needed to include Gurriel. Instead, they could have moved Gurriel for additional bullpen help - similar to the deal for Teo. Might be a decision that really bites them.

I was personally on the team that said that none of the catchers should have been dealt. Kirk had a breakout year where we needed to see if he had it long term. Jansen seemed to be a silent leader and his bat woke up second half of last year and we needed to see if his injuries were an anomaly. Moreno seemed by most accounts to be the future so stashing him for another year wouldn't have been a bad idea.


I'm not upset they went for Varsho, but he was an analytics move that cost us a lot. Gurriel is young but I understood why they dealt him. Moreno shouldn't have been dealt though. I strongly believe they were short handed on prospects because of these previous deals where they were generous on the prospect handover and this is what was needed.

[Kasi]

Yeah I agree trading Moreno looks rather foolish now. Not because I don’t think Varsho will be good but because it’s clear we can’t trust either of the other two catchers now. Jansen is a mistake hitter and good defensively and a good game caller but he’s not going to break .230. Kirk has more talent but he’s not made the commitment to being an every day player.