CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[You Need a Thneed]

The CFL is easily the second best football league in the world, with the second highest "average talent level".

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Zarley

It's unsettling to see this eastern Canadian attitude towards the CFL becoming more prevalent here in Calgary. The CFL gets more respect among American football fans than it does in some areas of Canada, which is unfortunate considering that it's an important cultural institution with a long history in this country.

Regardless, McMahon is in need of replacement and renovating it is a fool's errand. It's likely cheaper to build a new stadium that suits our needs from scratch and it's a better use of funds to construct it in an area the will allow for maximum usage (ie. somewhere that is actually able to host concerts, trade shows etc. in addition to football and expanded soccer/rugby usage).

Let me clarify as my post was not meant to disparage the CFL.


Are you suggesting that there are players who are going to choose Regina or Winnipeg over Calgary because they have a nicer facility? Or that a player would choose BC over Calgary because BC place is better?

That's ridiculous. Calgary has no problem attracting top talent right now even though Calgary is probably WAY behind a city like Vancouver in terms of where a player would like to live and quality of facilities.


I thought they were suggesting that we were going to be attracting "top talent" from the NFL because we have a nice stadium.

[Shazam]

Can CFL players even afford to live in Vancouver?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Can CFL players even afford to live in Vancouver?

I know one who couldn't afford to have a house in Calgary on his CFL salary. Almost all of them need supplemental incomes.

[Weitz]

Rookie minimum is $50,000. League average is $80,000 according to a quick google.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Rookie minimum is $50,000. League average is $80,000 according to a quick google.

The marquee players who can get $500K per year skew the average. I think the median is lower than $80K.

[Erick Estrada]

I believe Keon Raymond said it best; NFL = Not For Long, CFL = Come For the Love of the game. Most of the US players in the CFL are here because they love to play the game while others realize that playing in the CFL keeps the NFL dream alive better than not playing at all.

[Flash Walken]

Here is the thing that you're all missing about the CFL.

No one builds an arena due to the quality of the athletes, they build arenas to make money.

The CFL is no longer a gate driven league, so having a great stadium isn't keeping the Stamps in town or forcing them to leave. It's all about how MUCH profit the owners will make off the Stamps.

And one thing trumps the argument:

“The TV contract … TSN has done a great job. Too good a job,” Buono said. “And we get compensated for it.”

The TSN’s $40 million a year all but covers each team’s $5 million salary cap, leaving gate receipts, sponsorships, advertising and in-stadium revenues to pay for training camp (often subsidized by a host community), staff, travel, scouting, rent, etc.

If a team draws 20,000 per game nine times, at an average ticket price of, say, $60, that’s $10.8 million from ticket sales. If the average price is $40, that still $7.2 million at the gate alone, before any other revenue is counted.

The BC Lions are profitable at 20 000 seats. Maybe McMahon should be demolished and a smaller stadium built for a team that has seen declining attendance numbers for several years in a league that has seen huge attendance decline in the same time-frame.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You realize ESPN already televises CFL games right? Also the ratings for CFL games on ESPN2 and 3 often outdraw MLS. Lots of fans down there watched many CFL players on college and like to follow them in the CFL.

If they already have a decent product and coverage in the USA it should work in their favour to try and establish a link with the NFL. The CFL could even possibly move up their schedule around a month and it could be useful to the NFL as a pre-season evaluation program.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Here is the thing that you're all missing about the CFL.

No one builds an arena due to the quality of the athletes, they build arenas to make money.

The CFL is no longer a gate driven league, so having a great stadium isn't keeping the Stamps in town or forcing them to leave. It's all about how MUCH profit the owners will make off the Stamps.



The BC Lions are profitable at 20 000 seats. Maybe McMahon should be demolished and a smaller stadium built for a team that has seen declining attendance numbers for several years in a league that has seen huge attendance decline in the same time-frame.

CalgaryNEXT has already proposed a lower capacity stadium.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

CalgaryNEXT has already proposed a lower capacity stadium.

Cool, but more importantly the Stamps can be very profitable at their current average of about 27,000 at McMahon. No need for a new stadium at all in that regard.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Cool, but more importantly the Stamps can be very profitable at their current average of about 27,000 at McMahon. No need for a new stadium at all in that regard.

Have you ever actually gone to McMahon? Number of seats aside, it's terrible. Plus the noise restrictions prevent any large concerts.

[Mr.Coffee]

Flames ownership stand to make HUGE money off the valuation of the Flames and their equity interests if an arena is built. If the city fronts the majority of the money, the owners benefit massively. They aren't sharing that increase in value and equity with the city.

Calgary is a terrific NHL market. It's one of the best in the league. If the Flames ownership threaten to leave or do leave, I say good luck. Another rich billionaire, willing to build the stadium on more palatable terms, will arrive and NHL hockey will eventually be back.

This city is too important for the NHL to have the ownership group lose out on profiting off of it for the next few decades.

At the end of the day, the negotiation between the city and ownership group for CalgaryNEXT... it's just tough to see bridging these gaps because they've started too far out. They'll claim their negotiating and moving, but they're never going to get to a reasonable place unless they do the large majority of the moving.

So then they'll threaten to leave, and I hope at that point the city sticks to its guns and says fine, see you later, unless you're willing to give the city a stake in your team and equity and profits.

[Shazam]

Come on who doesn't like to piss into a communal trough.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Have you ever actually gone to McMahon? Number of seats aside, it's terrible. Plus the noise restrictions prevent any large concerts.

Cool, Stamps should pay for their own new stadium if there's money to be made in it. For the city to invest in it would be a massive waste though. Besides, the fieldhouse should be a public use facility readily available, not something that can't be used if Taylor Swift rolls through town. City can use that $200 million on a totally public use facility on its own. Really a no brainer.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Cool, Stamps should pay for their own new stadium if there's money to be made in it. For the city to invest in it would be a massive waste though. Besides, the fieldhouse should be a public use facility readily available, not something that can't be used if Taylor Swift rolls through town. City can use that $200 million on a totally public use facility on its own. Really a no brainer.

As an actual "amateur athlete" in that I do not get paid (directly or indirectly) to play sports, I would love another couple city arena's in town.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Cool, Stamps should pay for their own new stadium if there's money to be made in it. For the city to invest in it would be a massive waste though. Besides, the fieldhouse should be a public use facility readily available, not something that can't be used if Taylor Swift rolls through town. City can use that $200 million on a totally public use facility on its own. Really a no brainer.

A stadium is an important civic asset and, unlike an arena, the financial pro-forma for a stadium does not work in Canada. Not a single CFL or MLS stadium in this country has been privately financed and it's an inevitability that public dollars will go to stadium replacement in Calgary as well. The synergies gained from a combined facility will save taxpayer dollars when the greater picture is considered.

While I think concerns regarding field-house usage are an important consideration, the majority of these issues can be solved via good design. On a smaller scale, the Jack Simpson gymnasium (which is combined with a fitness centre and hosts a wide range of regular events) demonstrates that a multi-use facility can work with minimal impact on other users.

[CroFlames]

If video games have taught me anything, it's that a stadium adds 5 happiness to a city. So there's that.

What is someone offered you 5 happiness? Would you say no to a new stadium then?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Cool, Stamps should pay for their own new stadium if there's money to be made in it. For the city to invest in it would be a massive waste though. Besides, the fieldhouse should be a public use facility readily available, not something that can't be used if Taylor Swift rolls through town. City can use that $200 million on a totally public use facility on its own. Really a no brainer.

Other cities seem to manage dual uses. You are calling for a completely private and completely public model, which hasn't usually worked. These u dear takings almost always need government help, and solely government facilities are often not well designed or constructed.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If video games have taught me anything, it's that a stadium adds 5 happiness to a city. So there's that.

What is someone offered you 5 happiness? Would you say no to a new stadium then?

Pretty sure it's 2/4 happiness. Get it straight.

Personally, I like the Stampeders. We have the best team in the second best league. I'm fine with that.