Raptors 09/10 season thread

[bluejays]

Don't forget Turk missing the easy layup in the last minute (ho hum), and nobody fouling the guy with 20 seconds left on the turnover even though it's still a 6 point game. Irritating team with little balls or emotion most the time.

[killer_carlson]

This game was lost 100% at the center position.

Bogut had an absolutely dominant game. As wholly dominant a game from a center I've seen in a long time. Shot a tremendous percentage. Grabbed 12 boards, big presence defensively, and shamed Bargniani off the floor.

This is a game tape the team needs to keep and make Bargniani watch it all off season.

On a different note, Turk and Calderon are not working. Turk is so bored out there that when he does get the ball, he is 100% going not going to pass unless his drive is defended.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Perhaps they could flip bosh for another deadline package? We've seen it before.

Amir has potential and with the right environment could become like a keon clark with not the same length, if you can remember him. If he could augment his game with a perimeter effectiveness then he could be a matt barnes. I think he is slowly coming along. He is proving to be effective in certain situations.

Tough move to make. Can't give up on Bosh re-signing with a bad trade until Bosh refuses to re-sign - which he won't do.

Clark is a good comparison for Amir - dime a dozen. I like Amir, I just don't see his value anywhere near that of a franchise centre like Bynum.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

On a different note, Turk and Calderon are not working. Turk is so bored out there that when he does get the ball, he is 100% going not going to pass unless his drive is defended.

Whoa, blaming Calderon for Turk's embarrassing attempts at isolation offense is ridiculous.

Watching Turkey tonight had me longing for the days of Jalen Rose.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Tough move to make. Can't give up on Bosh re-signing with a bad trade until Bosh refuses to re-sign - which he won't do.

Clark is a good comparison for Amir - dime a dozen. I like Amir, I just don't see his value anywhere near that of a franchise centre like Bynum.

There would have to be more than just Amir, no doubt. Calderon, Amir future first rounder, lottery protected?

I don't think Bynum is a franchise centre, he seems quite soft from Laker diehards seem to be saying. He has considerable potential with his skill-set and body type, but I don't think he's an allstar at least for 3 years.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

There would have to be more than just Amir, no doubt. Calderon, Amir future first rounder, lottery protected?

I don't think Bynum is a franchise centre, he seems quite soft from Laker diehards seem to be saying. He has considerable potential with his skill-set and body type, but I don't think he's an allstar at least for 3 years.

Considering most NBA guys I have heard talking are saying Bosh for Bynum I don't see how two bench guys and a crappy pick would get him.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by moon

Considering most NBA guys I have heard talking are saying Bosh for Bynum I don't see how two bench guys and a crappy pick would get him.

Yeah, but did you hear anyone from toronto consider that? no. Jose isn't a crappy bench player, just playing there now because of his returning from injury. He was a starter not too long ago. And just because it's lottery protected doesn't mean it's crappy.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Yeah, but did you hear anyone from toronto consider that? no. Jose isn't a crappy bench player, just playing there now because of his returning from injury. He was a starter not too long ago. And just because it's lottery protected doesn't mean it's crappy.

Tragically, I'm agreeing with moon.

A young centre with size and skill-set is worth way more than that. Adding Derozan to that package probably isn't enough.

A bottom 15 1st round pick is crappy in the NBA. Not to say you'd surely get a crappy player, but consider Kwame went 1st overall, Bynum went top 10 - you can't get a franchise centre with a bottom 15 pick.
Could you see the Lakers moving Bynum to Chicago for Hinrich & a 1st?

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Tragically, I'm agreeing with moon.

A young centre with size and skill-set is worth way more than that. Adding Derozan to that package probably isn't enough.

A bottom 15 1st round pick is crappy in the NBA. Not to say you'd surely get a crappy player, but consider Kwame went 1st overall, Bynum went top 10 - you can't get a franchise centre with a bottom 15 pick.
Could you see the Lakers moving Bynum to Chicago for Hinrich & a 1st?

Depends, Bynum is very injury prone and his durability issues limit his trade value. How many games has he missed over his career? It's a long list. He has sustained a major knee injury and countless other ailments.

However, I don't think we would have enough to land him. I just don't buy the bosh for bynum value. The lakers fleeced memphis for gasol, so I'm sure they would be thinking the same in this instance.

I think that if the chicago offer was to include Thomas then it would be a lot closer, but what is the difference between AJ and TT? DRaft slot? PPG? And remember that Calderon would flourish in LA alongside Gasol an Kobe. However the Chi example is a good one.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Yeah, but did you hear anyone from toronto consider that? no. Jose isn't a crappy bench player, just playing there now because of his returning from injury. He was a starter not too long ago. And just because it's lottery protected doesn't mean it's crappy.

Bynum is the Lakers starting center and plays the 4th most minutes in the team.

Why would they trade a starter when they are trying to win this year?

I didn't say that Calderon is a crappy bench player but he is a bench player especially for the Lakers. Kobe is a heck of a defender but he can't defend both his and Calderon's guy.

The pick makes a lot of sense for the Raptors since they steal Bynum but 0 sense from the Lakers side since it makes them worse for this year and in the future.

And in the NBA non-lottery picks are crappy. Teams sell them for a couple of million dollars. If the Lakers want a mid round pick they can buy one without giving up their very good young center.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

I think that if the chicago offer was to include Thomas then it would be a lot closer, but what is the difference between AJ and TT?

You're right, that's a far more fair comparison, I missed you included Amir in the (hypothetical) trade.

My answer to your question is their value is similar - and both much lower than the value of a legitimate centre.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Gozer

You're right, that's a far more fair comparison, I missed you included Amir in the (hypothetical) trade.

My answer to your question is their value is similar - and both much lower than the value of a legitimate centre.

No prob...

I agree.

Re: Bynum. Every time you see him you see the Size and his ability to do certain things with ease, conversely struggling with areas you'd expect a HS player to struggle with, 5 years in. However, the one thing I'm wary of is his Knee. He's actually been under the knife and to have that at such a young age should scare any GM. If he can withstand the rigors of the game and avoid further damage to the pre-existing areas then he could fulfill a lot of the potential that he displays. That's why I think his value is not even close to Bosh's whom still could potentially sign with the home team ifthey make the playoffs and a little noise there to boot.

Perhaps the LA trade would include Larry Jr. errrr... AMorrison's dead weight contract which gives the Lake some cap room. Surely they'd consider that an asset as addition by subtraction. Perhaps, Amo gets some burn and can shake the hate a lil'.

Ergo: Calderon(8.5), AJ(4)/Reggie Evans(5) ..., future picks. To LA for Bynum(12.5) and Morrison(5.6)/Vujacic(5.0). 12.5/13.5 - 17.6/18.1. I think the picks might have to be a first(top5 protected) and a couple seconds but I would make that deal in a heartbeat. Otherwise, I think the cap relief and picks work for LA's future. Then, Calderon works for them right now, Aj could be a nice piece for them as well. Evans might eventually get healthy and give them something we didn't get, tough minutes.

It's all EA sports but you never know. I just wouldn't be happy with bynum for bosh.

Moon: pardon me, you didn't say crappy calderon, perhaps that was my freudian slip. Calderon Instantly becomes their starter so that gives that team a different look but they don't lose a starter altogether. Perhaps it's a look that will get another distributor on the floor for a team that is having their star throw everyone else under the bus in LALA land. Dfish and Farmar aren't distributors. Kobe is the only one they have. Their team could be better and I think they could get more for Bynum, but that is a team I would offer JC to if i were BC.

[Gozer]

I wouldn't approve of Bosh for Bynum either, furthermore I don't see situation where the Lakers want to move Bynum especially not for Calderon.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Gozer

I wouldn't approve of Bosh for Bynum either, furthermore I don't see situation where the Lakers want to move Bynum especially not for Calderon.

I've heard that the lakers were the one's inquiring about Devin Harris in NJ which as a led to Rod Thorn saying they won't trade him.

I was thinking that bynum would be on the block and if we could get him for Jose + then Bc would make up for the Turk signing. And it would give this team a legitimate C. Albeit, one who is injury prone.

[Machiavelli]

Huge win over the Lakers tonight!!! Turk actually stepped up in the clutch.

[octothorp]

That was freaking awesome. I was really nervous with Turk handling the ball on that last possession, but once he got to the line, I was pretty confident he'd make them. Good defense down the stretch, too, really limiting LA for the last 3 minutes.

Games like this will go a long way to convince Bosh to stay in TO.

[killer_carlson]

I had no problem with turk handling the ball. I am actually more comfortable with him having the ball than Calderon or Bargniani when the game is on the line.

It drove me nuts again though that Bargniani refuses to get his nose dirty and rebound the offensive glass. Brutal that Bosh is the only guy down there posession after posession.

[403ep3]

Crazy game. Wow! Come on bosh, stay here! lol

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I had no problem with turk handling the ball. I am actually more comfortable with him having the ball than Calderon or Bargniani when the game is on the line.

It drove me nuts again though that Bargniani refuses to get his nose dirty and rebound the offensive glass. Brutal that Bosh is the only guy down there posession after posession.

Completely agree. Hedo has been really crappy this year, but with no proven guys who are clutch, between Bosh and him, when the game is running down, there is nobody else.

Bargnani will always be scared to go down low. Drives me nuts. One guy who is going down low and to the glass fearlessly is surprisingly DeRozan. The guy isn't putting up huge points, but boy is he improving his ball handling. He's everything you want to see from a rookie. Next year he should be a real gem if he keeps up his worth ethic.

Oh, and the win last night was a very nice one.

[mykalberta]

Crazy game yesterday, hard to tell if it was a foul on Turk or not, but if it was reversed and Kobe was there he would have got the same foul call.

Its weird to look at the stat lines, the top 4 players on the Lakers all have better stats than the top 4 players on the Raptors and then the Raptors bench comes into play and the Lakers seem to have almost no bench whatsoever.

I admit I was more excited watching the raps game than any football game yesterday - it looked like a crazy atmosphere at acc yesterday.