Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

How long does something need to be planned though? According to witnesses, Li first sat near the front of the bus and then later took a seat next to the victim. It sounds like some planning went into it.

This is completely insane.

I was thinking the same. Why would this clown move from the front of the bus to the back with a knife on hand then not to long after randomly stab someone. Smells like first degree murder to me. The issue with the lawyers I am guessing is that it'll be a tougher case to prove.

The fact that with 2nd degree murder is that he could get out in 10 years is worriesome.

[ZDogg]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

How long does something need to be planned though? According to witnesses, Li first sat near the front of the bus and then later took a seat next to the victim. It sounds like some planning went into it.

This is completely insane.

Good thing he moved to the back of the bus. Imagine if this occured at the front... that would be the only case I could see any passengers trying to gang up on the attacker.

[Dion]

Veteran Crown lawyer Larry Hodgson will prosecute in the case. He said the charge of second-degree murder was chosen because of the amount of evidence currently available against Li.

Judge Rocky Pollack asked that Li be held in custody pending a court-ordered psychological evaluation. Pollack indicated he wasn't prepared to make the order until Li has an opportunity to talk to a lawyer.

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/ne...7-1a3cb0c79532

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by fedr123

Earlier this summer, we were houseboating with our daughter and my inlaws. My mother in law thought she heard a bear or some other animal in the bushes behind our campfire one night. When she ran inside the house, we all conspired to pretend we heard it too and see how she reacted. About fifteen minutes later, my brother in law screams out randomly "OHMYGODTHERESABEARAAAAAAAAAAARGH!" We all knew it was coming except for my mother in law who proceeded to push her family members out of the way, including her only grandaugher (my 16 month old), in order to save herself.

What's the point? I bet 99% of the population would react similarly. When the chips are down, it's not women and children first; it's me first and get the f out of my way.

FIRE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCru-0-mIC4

[fredr123]

The caveat, as always: I'm not bright, I'm often wrong, this is my opinion

Originally Posted by Bagor

So would you say that at the end of what could be described as a very borderline case (one witness only) when the judge is directing the jury:

It would be fair for him to:

1. Mention to the jury that they should note that the defendant had heard the allegations from the sole witness and had every opportunity to take the stand to refute them and had refused to do so.

I don't think this would be proper unless the judge also explained that the defendant is under no obligation to take the stand and is not required by law to refute the Crown's case directly with his own testimony.

Originally Posted by Bagor

2. Comment on his perception of the witness behaviour on the stand (thorough, meticulous) thus swaying their perception of him.

This seems like an assessment of the credibility of a witness by the trial judge and would be inappropriate. Issues of credibility and the weight to be given to any particular witness's testimony are the purview of the jury.

Originally Posted by Bagor

3. Tell the jury that along with an accurate description of the defendant that wasn't challenged by the defence he had also described the defendants accent. Given that the defendant didn't speak and the defence didn't challenge this they were to assume that this information also was accurate?

I don't think it would be appropriate for the trial judge to tell the jury that the this information would also be accurate.

Originally Posted by Bagor

This is a UK case where a jury is allowed to draw adverse inferences from a suspect's refusal to provide an explanation for prosecution evidence.

Do you have a particular UK case in mind? I'd like to read more about it if you do.

In the Canadian context, R. v. Daley is a recent SCC decision that concerned proper jury instructions. Thecourt.ca summarized the core requirements of jury instructions in Canada as follows:

1. instruction on the relevant legal issues, including the charges faced by the accused;
2. an explanation of the theories of each side;
3. a review of the salient facts which support the theories and case of each side;
4. a review of the evidence relating to the law;
5. a direction informing the jury they are the masters of the facts and it is for them to make the factual determinations;
6. instruction about the burden of proof and presumption of innocence;
7. the possible verdicts open to the jury; and
8. the requirements of unanimity for reaching a verdict.

[EVERLAST]

And NOBODY thinks Capital punishment is NECESSARY???

!st degree murder
2nd degree murder
manslaughter
blah blah blah

Murder is murder folks.
When it happens to someone close to YOU then lets talk.
Canada's justice is a joke.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

FIRE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCru-0-mIC4

LOL

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

And NOBODY thinks Capital punishment is NECESSARY???

!st degree murder
2nd degree murder
manslaughter
blah blah blah

Murder is murder folks.
When it happens to someone close to YOU then lets talk.
Canada's justice is a joke.

I really wouldn't mind if someone took this guy out back with a rifle, but the Canadian government can't be in the business of revenge.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Good point, can't argue against it. Me, I'd be shouting my innocence from the rafters.

Depends. If my trial is going in my favor, i'm keeping my mouth shut. If it looks like I'm going to jail I'd do the same as you and try to explain what's happening.

There's no reason at all, ever to talk to the police. Testifying at your own trial i'd only do if absolutely necessary and was told that was the case by my lawyer.

[Log]

Originally Posted by Azure

Okay, I'm not calling anyone a coward, but just because the guy was 'probably' already dead, which we don't know....isn't a good reason for people to run.

I'm sure 90% of the people in that situation would also run. That is normal human behavior. But to say 'ah hell, forget him, he's already dead' and flee, that doesn't fly.

Even if that doesn't fly, if I were in that situation, I'm sure I wouldn't have done much vs someone with a rambo knife and would have also ran.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by Azure

Okay, I'm not calling anyone a coward, but just because the guy was 'probably' already dead, which we don't know....isn't a good reason for people to run.

I'm sure 90% of the people in that situation would also run. That is normal human behavior. But to say 'ah hell, forget him, he's already dead' and flee, that doesn't fly.

these statements really urk me. it is so easy to say how tough and you would be if you were there. we are talking about people who were just woken up, surprised, horrified, confused and likely unaware about what exactly what was happening at the time. To generalize and say that anyone would say "forget him" is ignorant. the fact that only one person was killed is a miracle in that situation. i'm actually a bit surprised that anyone even tried to go back onto the bus at all.

[J pold]

The facebook page for the victim is growing rapidly

It’s just too bad that some idiots have to cloud the memorial for him with ignorant comments

One thread said that everyone one the bus is an accomplish to murder…show some respect people

[tkflames]

I have not been able to get this story out of my head for the last day or so and as many of you it is hard just to comprehend what has happened here (likely even for Li). And as with many of you there is a part of me that wants to see him publicly castrated and marched through the streets while being spat at and then publicly chopped to pieces much like he did to his victim (or give him the death penalty or whatever you want to call it). Having said all that, I don't think this would bring any kind of closure to myself or many others out there his family included to see that either. So then how do you punish a guy who I don't think anyone considers mentally "normal"? I mean is 25 years in solitary confinement followed by release to a society (at age 65+) with some that likely have not forgotten your injustices and are looking for revenge. What about the rest of your life in confinement thinking about the wrongs you have committed even if you are not fully capable of understanding them yourself. Electric Chair/Lethal injection and what have you, would that do it? Or the most likely outcome here, a lifetime in a high security mental health facility where you will be treated like a dangerous animal/cucumber (depending on meds) for the rest of your life.

I really don't have an answer for all of these as all seem somewhat inadequate and unfulfilling. Many out of here will jump to the most public and worst of punishments out of fear to prevent future such incidents (whether effective or not isn't really the point I am trying to make or question I am trying to ask). There is a part of me that Freud had been right in his theories and (as I imply his work) people could be neutralized by castration as this would be an easy satisfying solution in that the criminal would never re-commit, and people would fear living as neutral beings for the rest of their lives for that to be a deterrent. Unfortunately no such solution exists (or pumping him full of meds every day for the rest of his life isn't really viable and very expensive).

I guess the fundamental question is: What would it take to satisfy society, the people around him and equally importantly yourself (having been affected just by reading this story) to be satisfied that justice has been done.

I thank those of you who have taken the time to read this post. This has been very therapeutic for myself and hopefully allows people the opportunity to look at and challenge their own beliefs.

I will end this post by saying Rest in Peace and that my prayers are (and have been for the last day or so) with the family and friends, those witnessing the murder and all those affected by it directly or indirectly.

TK

[Engine09]

Victim's myspace:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cf...endid=108390479

[HOOT]

I bet this guy get out of jail within 10-15 years, because of the horrible court system in Canada.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

And NOBODY thinks Capital punishment is NECESSARY???

!st degree murder
2nd degree murder
manslaughter
blah blah blah

Murder is murder folks.
When it happens to someone close to YOU then lets talk.
Canada's justice is a joke.

Other than "revenge", what exactly does killing this guy accomplish? Do you think he would have been deterred from committing this crime if he thought he might get executed for it? Do you think the next guy who might commit a crime like this might think "Li got executed for his murder, so I better not do that crazy thing I was planning"?

It would only be revenge, and that "joke" of a justice system in one of the safest places in the world isn't in the revenge business.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, no doubt about that.

I wonder why they didn't just shoot the guy. If he was holding the victim's head....just shoot the guy.

Because vigilante justice isn't the solution? The killer wasn't a threat at that point. What would shooting him do except to leave a cop with nightmares for the rest of their lives?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because vigilante justice isn't the solution? The killer wasn't a threat at that point. What would shooting him do except to leave a cop with nightmares for the rest of their lives?

The part about nightmares -- sure, that's a reason not to shoot him. Other than that though, I don't think it would be considered vigilante justice. I mean the guy is in there showing off a human head and he has a weapon. He might not be an immediate threat, but they are going to have to get him out of there somehow, so he will be sooner or later. Or just plain old nerves. Who would blame a cop if he was a little too touchy in that situation? "He had the head in his hand and he was holding that knife and looking right at me, I freaked!"

[Dion]

Dr. Fred Shane, a local forensic psychiatrist, said at first blush and without knowing more about the incident than what the media has reported, that he suspects the suspect has "a pathological background and a psychiatric history.

"This appears to be a psychotic episode... it's probably a chronically ill person. Most likely a paranoid schizophrenic.

"Chances are that when he gets to court he'll be found not criminally responsible because of his mental illness and he'll end up in a psychiatric facility to be treated.

"It was probably an escalating delusional episode where something must have touched him about this guy. Something spooked him or precipitated it."

Shane said the suspect probably heard powerful voices which urged him to "do it, do it.

http://winnipegfreepress.com/local/s...-4799263c.html

[Dion]

They now say the victim wasn't sleeping. He was texting with a friend
most of the night and listening to music via his cell phone. He had
also texted his dad and asked if it was ok if he came home for the
night.

His dad said, 'Of course'.