The Dark Knight [SPOILER THREAD]

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by troutman

^^^^

Joker's endgame? Didn't he say he was fighting Batman for the soul of Gotham?

Sure, but what does that mean?
All Joker wanted to do was cause chaos, something Batman is fighting against.

Hell at the end of the movie, Joker even says that he won't kill Batman because he is so fun.
He doesn't care what the outcome is, he just loves doing crazy stuff to drive Batman and the rest of Gotham crazy. He's not doing it for money, or anything else, he's just doing it to do it.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Itse

If you accept that Joker is supposed to be an agent of chaos, you have to admit that he pretty much fails miserably, mostly because what he actually IS in the movie is the most highly organized character. The man with the plan, for whom things work out... Except his plans are so inane that not a lot of actual chaos is created, outside your average death and destruction which we've seen in tons of movies already.

Not having seen the movie, I can tell you that being an agent of chaos does not mean that he himself has to be chaotic.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

^^^^

Joker's endgame? Didn't he say he was fighting Batman for the soul of Gotham?

I think he just said that to get under Batman's skin. Batman wants to save Gotham's soul and has been working tirelessly to do it, and to prove that the goodness exists. If you're a sociopathic prick with a warped sense of humor, how much fun would it be to do the opposite? Not because you care about the outcome, but to screw with the guy who does care. Joker knows that human nature is dependent on environment... most people are not inherently good or evil... unless something pushes them. So push away, right?

Alfred's commentary was essential to understand the nature of the Joker. Some people just want to watch the world burn... they commit certain acts because they want to... and as Alfred explained, sometimes one has to stoop quite low to stop them. (burning down the forest to kill the jewel thief). I was disappointed Batman didn't listen to Alfred on that one.

[Cliche]

Originally Posted by troutman

Saw the movie last night, and thought it was really good. My complaints are minor ones - the movie was a bit long (we thought it could have ended when Two Face got his face melted off). Also, what is up with Batman's voice? - he sounds like a Monster Truck spokesman when he talks - really distracting. How does the Joker keep attracting henchmen? - seems like a career path with a very short life span.

Was Chicago used as the back-drop? Where is Gotham and Metropolis in the DC version of the US?

There was a joke in the middle about cats - are they foreshadowing Catwoman?

The boat dilemna is a common device in comics - I remember Spiderman in the 1970s having to decide between Aunt May and Mary Jane in a battle with the Green Goblin.

The two voices is more defined in Batman: The Animated series, as Kevin Conroy has 2 separate voices for Bruce Wayne and Batman. Christian Bales seems to be over the top, but certain excesses are allowable for theatrical purposes.

Some of the Joker's Henchmen seem to be escaped inmates from arkham asylum. No sane person would willingly do half the things that occur in the movie, but it is readily apparent that the government is corrupt, and that the cops can be turned due to loyalties to family members, allowing for more leeway in what can be done. Also the level of compartmentalization in most of Joker's schemes is very high, when you consider the opening bank robbery.

Heck, if the mob has their own banks, that should only speak of how corrupt the city is, and how much a hostage of the mob or the law, the citizenry are.


From Wikipedia article on Gotham City:

In terms of atmosphere, Batman writer and editor Dennis O'Neil has said that, figuratively, "Batman's Gotham City is Manhattan below Fourteenth Street at eleven minutes past midnight on the coldest night in November."[2]

Although I find it ironic that an inverted map of Vancouver was used for the first 2 Tim Burton movies.





On another note, what is the thought of both Batman and The Joker as social engineers? (For reference, another equally implausible movie, Live Free or Die Hard) After all, it is more about engaging those 600 people than fighting the 6 or 7 men.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Not having seen the movie, I can tell you that being an agent of chaos does not mean that he himself has to be chaotic.

In this type of a movie where all characters are essentially meant to be archetypical representations of one thing or another, yes I would say that an agent of chaos has to be more than a salesrep.

Oh btw, unsurprisingly I absolutely hated Spider-Man 3. Competes with Daredevil in the "worst superhero movie ever" category, and is rather high up on my "most pointless movies ever created", except it's close to being so bad it's funny.

[troutman]

Comic Book Movies, Worst to Best (Rotten Tomatoes):

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/featur...007/comic/?p=1

Dees not include this summer . . .

[Itse]

Originally Posted by troutman

Comic Book Movies, Worst to Best (Rotten Tomatoes):

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/featur...007/comic/?p=1

Meh, IMO that just shows that your average film critique doesn't amount to much (other than an occasional conversation piece).

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Rumored cast for the sequel to include Johnny Depp as Riddler and Philip Seymore Hoffman as the Penguin.

Personally, I think it's too soon for anybody to have an idea for villians for the next flick, especially a minor site like this one, but I thought I'd post it for those folks who thought Hoffman would make a good Penguin.

http://www.holymoly.co.uk/news/28/jo...film-3842.html

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Itse

Meh, IMO that just shows that your average film critique doesn't amount to much (other than an occasional conversation piece).

Not sure what you are trying to say. Did you know RT looks at hundreds of critiques and averages the scores for each film?

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Rumored cast for the sequel to include Johnny Depp as Riddler and Philip Seymore Hoffman as the Penguin.

Wow, that would kill me. Johnny Depp is one of my favorite actors of all time and Phillip Seymour Hoffman is also great.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by troutman

Not sure what you are trying to say. Did you know RT looks at hundreds of critiques and averages the scores for each film?

Yes. Frankly I think that's kind of ######ed, although I seem to be in the minority. There's two major problems with this;

First of all, tons of critique is written by average Joe's who have no more experience or skill in reviewing movies than the next guy, and more problematically, tend to have a rather narrow liking of movies. They like a couple of type of movies and give good ratings to those, and the rest is dealt with pretty randomly. They also fall easily for so called hype, or more exactly, quality advertising. The more critics you include, the more these kind of people you get. That screws up the polls, because people who for example think all superheroes are stupid shouldn't review superhero movies. It's pointless.

The second and even bigger problem is that movies are not baseball. You can't just take an average of something and say who's the best. I liked Catwoman (number 91) better than Barbarella (top 30) and I'd even put Elektra (number 92) before Spider-Man 3 (number 35). Most people would propably have equally big differences of opinion with that list. Which is understandable, because that's not actually anyones list. It's just an average. You can read it and go "hey, did you know they put Spider-Man 3 before Ghost in the Shell 2 and From Hell? And Blade 2 is supposed to be BETTER than Blade 1!"

Conversation pieces. Nothing more.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Cher as Catwoman????

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008...as+Catwoman%3F

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Itse

First of all, tons of critique is written by average Joe's who have no more experience or skill in reviewing movies than the next guy, and more problematically, tend to have a rather narrow liking of movies. They like a couple of type of movies and give good ratings to those, and the rest is dealt with pretty randomly. They also fall easily for so called hype, or more exactly, quality advertising. The more critics you include, the more these kind of people you get. That screws up the polls, because people who for example think all superheroes are stupid shouldn't review superhero movies. It's pointless.

You can filter reviews at RT by "Top Critics".

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Cher as Catwoman????

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008...as+Catwoman%3F

Please God no.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Please God no.

Ya i read that on IGN this morning. I dont beleive it for a second personally. That would probably be the worst casting in the history of movies. I dont think Warners execs would ever allow it.

[Antithesis]

Nolan has done such a wonderful job with the first two that I am willing to trust him if he decides he wants to cast Cher in the third, but there is no way there is a grain of truth to this. He hasn't even committed to a third movie yet, and I haven't even read anything about a story being put together.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Ya i read that on IGN this morning. I dont beleive it for a second personally. That would probably be the worst casting in the history of movies. I dont think Warners execs would ever allow it.

They botched Aquaman with Michael Mann directing - HAHA

[Coach]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

They botched Aquaman with Michael Mann directing - HAHA

Michael Bay actually....I hear Jake Gyllenhaal did a fine job replacing Vincent Chase though

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Michael Bay actually....I hear Jake Gyllenhaal did a fine job replacing Vincent Chase though

And Kevin Smith writing A2 instead of Andrew Kevin Walker wasn't the greatest move by WB either.

[flip]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

And Kevin Smith writing A2 instead of Andrew Kevin Walker wasn't the greatest move by WB either.

A2?